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Another question about loading/unloading at the ramp

skeptic

skeptic

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This year I have a new tow vehicle and I want to follow the instructions and not risk shorting out or damaging the electronics of the truck.

Here's my dilemma...My truck and boat manuals say to disconnect the wiring to the trailer before backing the trailer into the water. My problem is my boat trailer has a five pin hookup (meaning the fifth pin identifies that the vehicle is in reverse) and it needs to be in reverse otherwise a safety feature causes the surge brakes to be applied and the trailer will not move.

Last year, I never disconnected the wiring....who does this anyway? I have never seen someone disconnect the wiring prior to a launch or connect after loading a boat.

Disconnect wiring and trailer won't go down the ramp. Keep the wiring connected and risk screwing up my new truck. Is there something I'm missing? Thanks in advance.
 
Maybe not the answer you want and I'm sure someone else will chime in with more knowledge on the subject.

I'm pretty sure if you keep the trailer plugged in you will not mess anything up with your truck, you may damage the trailer lights. If they are LED chances are you will not hurt anything. The older lamp style lights; the sockets can corrode and a hot bulb hitting cool water can shorten the lamps life. That is my experience with trailer lights.

Steve
 
I believe that the fifth wire only plays a role when backing up an incline. Your surge brakes won't do anything backing down a decline. My old trailer had a little clip for when backing up my driveway or other incline. Pretty sure that's how it works.

Derrick
 
I do believe Derrick is correct. My brother had a trailer like this as well. We experimented with it and found the only time it locked up was when we tried to back it up a hill. They never seemed to kick in backing down an incline.

As for the lights part of it. I was always taught to disconnect the trailer wiring before backing into the water. I feel this was because of the old style bulbs and not wanting to short them out. Therefore, out of habit, I never have my wiring connected when backing into the water.

Hope this helps.

andy
 
skeptic said:
This year I have a new tow vehicle and I want to follow the instructions and not risk shorting out or damaging the electronics of the truck.

Here's my dilemma...My truck and boat manuals say to disconnect the wiring to the trailer before backing the trailer into the water. My problem is my boat trailer has a five pin hookup (meaning the fifth pin identifies that the vehicle is in reverse) and it needs to be in reverse otherwise a safety feature causes the surge brakes to be applied and the trailer will not move.

Last year, I never disconnected the wiring....who does this anyway? I have never seen someone disconnect the wiring prior to a launch or connect after loading a boat.

Disconnect wiring and trailer won't go down the ramp. Keep the wiring connected and risk screwing up my new truck. Is there something I'm missing? Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...
Skeptic, You ask a good question.....The owners manuals instruction are a disclaimer first and application protection second....The disconnect instruction is logical and prudent because of potential created by water connecting/shorting circuits....The then shorted circuits may be deemed as fuse protected....However, subject to many variables, generic operator instructions automaticly cover oversized fuses, creative wiring schematics and etc....For example, over-fused circuits may have a factory installed fuse that won't blow before an electronic module is corrupted...The operator is then inconvenianced, liability to the vendor increases because of no lights or some other circuit failure....At the end of the day, you may never have a problem, though there is risk.

The 5th pin is connected to an electronic selonoid.... The solenoid is activated simultaneous with energizing the back up light circuit....The solenoid protects the trailer brake cylinders from induced master cylinder pressure... The coupler includes the master cylinder....The design was created to allow ANY trailer equipped with a surge brake system to back up without damaging the the trailer brakes....There are a couple of solutions, one, use the typical coupler lever to provide no stress reverse when power is disconnected, then disconnect the electrical connector. Two, run a seperate circuit to a dash mounted toggle switch that kills power to everything (trailer lights, etc.) but the solenoid...The solenoid/connector will logicaly be above water line when the bottom of the pickup axle bearings are at or above water line....When the P/U axle bearings go below water line damage can occur to the axle, brakes and bearings... Note: The toggle switch scheme can create an "Ultimate Vendor Liability".
 
I have a pin which needs to be inserted which prohibits the trailer sliding tongue from moving and surge brakes from locking up when the wiring harness is not attached. If you were to attempt to move the trailer backwards at any angle (even down a hill) with the wiriing harness disconnected the brakes will lock. Duel axle 25ft Karavan trailer.
 
Thanks for all of the comments. I guess I'll try backing the trailer while I'm going down the ramp (as if I'm launching the boat) with the power disconnected to see if the brakes engage. I do know the trailer brakes will lock on flat ground if the power is disconnected. I have heard of manual clips or pins being pushed or pulled to disengage the safety feature but I don't think mine has one (it's a 2011 Heritage trailer). I will read the manual once again to see if I've missed something. Running a second circuit seems like a lot of work not to mention being somewhat archaic with a 2011 truck and trailer but I appreciate your comment. Also I guess I need to remember to disconnect the power before I submerge the trailer. Thanks again.
 
skeptic said:
Thanks for all of the comments. I guess I'll try backing the trailer while I'm going down the ramp (as if I'm launching the boat) with the power disconnected to see if the brakes engage. I do know the trailer brakes will lock on flat ground if the power is disconnected. I have heard of manual clips or pins being pushed or pulled to disengage the safety feature but I don't think mine has one (it's a 2011 Heritage trailer). I will read the manual once again to see if I've missed something. Running a second circuit seems like a lot of work not to mention being somewhat archaic with a 2011 truck and trailer but I appreciate your comment. Also I guess I need to remember to disconnect the power before I submerge the trailer. Thanks again.
Click to expand...
Skeptic, FYI, there may be a DOT (department of transportation ) statue that is relative. I have not seen a "surge brake coupler" without provision for a safety chain or cable. The chain/cable is in addition to those larger chains/cables that run from the trailer frame to the vehicle hitch. The surge brake safety chain/cable is operator adjusted to length. The length is to be shorter than the safety chains from trailer frame to vehicle hitch. The design is to engage the trailer brakes in the event of coupler failure, broken trailer ball, failed hitch pin and etc. Once the fixed trailer to vehicle connection is broken, the surge brake safety feature engages. The trailer brakes engage, the trailer to vehicle safety chains/cable become taught and hold the trailer in a straight line while the tow vehicle comes to rest.

Otherwise, without that feature, the potential trailer is free to sway to and fro, breake loose and end up in on-coming traffic.

Straight electric brake systems have an emergency battery, mounted on the trailer, with a seperate safety chain/cable to serve the same purpose. Air brakes are designed to engage in the event an air hose breaks and air pressure is lost.

Some states may consider disregard of those safety features as a traffic violation. The sharpie ambulance chaser may also like that opportunity.

Trailers fall in wt. catagories. The lawn mower trailer is assumed to be much lighter than the tow vehicle, no brakes required. However, as the trailer to tow vehicle wt. ratio increases, brakes become mandatory. Again, you may find that any remote trailer brake system includes emergency features.
 
CcanDo said:
Skeptic, FYI, there may be a DOT (department of transportation ) statue that is relative. I have not seen a "surge brake coupler" without provision for a safety chain or cable. The chain/cable is in addition to those larger chains/cables that run from the trailer frame to the vehicle hitch. The surge brake safety chain/cable is operator adjusted to length. The length is to be shorter than the safety chains from trailer frame to vehicle hitch. The design is to engage the trailer brakes in the event of coupler failure, broken trailer ball, failed hitch pin and etc. Once the fixed trailer to vehicle connection is broken, the surge brake safety feature engages. The trailer brakes engage, the trailer to vehicle safety chains/cable become taught and hold the trailer in a straight line while the tow vehicle comes to rest.

Otherwise, without that feature, the potential trailer is free to sway to and fro, breake loose and end up in on-coming traffic.

Straight electric brake systems have an emergency battery, mounted on the trailer, with a seperate safety chain/cable to serve the same purpose. Air brakes are designed to engage in the event an air hose breaks and air pressure is lost.

Some states may consider disregard of those safety features as a traffic violation. The sharpie ambulance chaser may also like that opportunity.

Trailers fall in wt. catagories. The lawn mower trailer is assumed to be much lighter than the tow vehicle, no brakes required. However, as the trailer to tow vehicle wt. ratio increases, brakes become mandatory. Again, you may find that any remote trailer brake system includes emergency features.
Click to expand...
My trailer definitely has the "break away" safety cable that will stop the trailer from rolling freely in the event of a coupler/safety chain mishap. I just don't know if my trailer has a way to manually lock out the brakes to keep them from being applied when backing down the ramp without the power connected to the truck. I'll have to check the trailer next time I head down to the boat. I read there are some trailer brakes that only deactivated electronically via the reverse circuit. My manual stated the brakes should not engage while backing down the ramp only. If the ground is soft or your backing up hill (as stated before) should the brakes engage. Thanks.
 
I forgot to clarify the input I gave on brakes was applicable to 2011 Karavan boat trailer, duel axle, hydraulic activated on a 5 wire flat wiring harness. In this setup the master brake cyl for the trailer brakes located in the tongue are activated by the compression of the trailer tongue. That pushes hydraulic fluid to the trailer brakes. There is no way for the operator to control that. When reversing with the wire harness connected, the 5th wire is used to send a signal to the master brake cyl in the trailer tongue that the vehicle is in reverse and to disable/shut off fluid path so the brakes will not be activated by the tongue movement. Can you technically back down an incline with the wiring harness detached. Technically yes, but my trailer is so sensitive it that any pressure at all on the tongue will activate the brakes. I have tried to back down with wire unhooked and the trailer eventually sees some steeting left/right or the smallest of resistance as the need to break....and then your locked up. I am not sure how other trailers are manufactured but I would think most have a pin or other locking option for emergency use or moving the trailer backwards when no harness is connected. Mine as I stated has a magnetic pin that goes into the tongue slide grove and prevent any compression, thus allowing it to be moved back or forth with no wiring harness.
 
There are a couple of possible solutions for backing the surge brake trailer with the trailer connector disconnected.

Lets take post this to "Benningtons Members Only" secure area. The intent is to create patent protection and encourage Bennington to build trailers or collaberate with other trailer builders.
 
skeptic said:
This year I have a new tow vehicle and I want to follow the instructions and not risk shorting out or damaging the electronics of the truck.

Here's my dilemma...My truck and boat manuals say to disconnect the wiring to the trailer before backing the trailer into the water. My problem is my boat trailer has a five pin hookup (meaning the fifth pin identifies that the vehicle is in reverse) and it needs to be in reverse otherwise a safety feature causes the surge brakes to be applied and the trailer will not move.

Last year, I never disconnected the wiring....who does this anyway? I have never seen someone disconnect the wiring prior to a launch or connect after loading a boat.

Disconnect wiring and trailer won't go down the ramp. Keep the wiring connected and risk screwing up my new truck. Is there something I'm missing? Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...
Well, this seems to have gotten a little out of hand. The only electrical components on a surge brake system are on the trailer tounge, therefore, never exposed to water. Unless you back that far in the water!

Most boat modern boat trailers use sealed lighting, or better yet, LED lighting, no more shorts due to water intrusion.

Every trailer i have worked on or inspected [DOT insp. part of my job] that has surge brakes has a manual lockout of one kind or another, usually a pin inserted in the tounge to prevent the brakes from operating.

If your boat trailer has surge brakes with the 5 pin connector, it was designed for use in the water, but if you're in doubt, ask the trailer manufacturer.

Let's not re-invent the wheel here, somebody has already done that :D
 
WOW!! I didn't mean for this subject to take the turn that it did. Simply, I just want to do the right thing by my truck and trailer. My manual says there may or may not be a Brake Lockout Bracket on the side of the tongue, a Brake Lockout Cap on top of the tongue or an Automatic Brake Lockout (meaning...it needs to be powered and in reverse). I launched and loaded my boat about 15 times last year and I do not think my trailer has either (a bracket or a cap) but I could be wrong. My trailer is an hour away (at the lake) so next time I go down there I'll definitely find out for sure. If it's Automatic only, I'll call the manufacturer and get their opinion. Thanks again.
 
Geoffrey & Brenda said:
Well, this seems to have gotten a little out of hand. The only electrical components on a surge brake system are on the trailer tounge, therefore, never exposed to water. Unless you back that far in the water!

Most boat modern boat trailers use sealed lighting, or better yet, LED lighting, no more shorts due to water intrusion.

Every trailer i have worked on or inspected [DOT insp. part of my job] that has surge brakes has a manual lockout of one kind or another, usually a pin inserted in the tounge to prevent the brakes from operating.

If your boat trailer has surge brakes with the 5 pin connector, it was designed for use in the water, but if you're in doubt, ask the trailer manufacturer.

Let's not re-invent the wheel here, somebody has already done that :D
Click to expand...
Redundantly, the general concensus is that one can dunk the trailer, without failure. However, variables such as brackish or salt water may effect life expectancy of coductors/connectors. The pinch connectors cut the conductor shield and expose the conductor core. Subject to the conductor being not tinned, corrosion has a earlier starting place, even in fresh water. Tinned conductors may also be effected. Tinned conductors raise the BOM cost and may discourage builders from using that option. Short term VS. long term, ohm resistance, under load, may find the circuit decaying. Electricity hunts for an earth ground. And, water may be considered earth ground. Long term, shields are subjected to wear, thereby exposing cunductors. Or, the shield may become brittle, crack and etc.

Current running can cause electrolysis. The reaction may result in a weakened circuit.

The "lock out" pin is logical. However, in the event the user failed to remove the pin, the coupler/trailer builder may be held accountable for that design feature. Or, somehow an object found its way into the pin hole and disabled the actuator.

You can argue that I worry to much. I have been lucky to dodge several bullets because of pro-active pre-cautions.

NASA launched something like 40 missions before they had a failure.
 
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