New CARB Proposals Threaten Future of Outboard Engines

SLXGUY

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Some time ago I read a book titled "Power Hungry" which was, I believe, well researched. Maybe electric motors in cars and boats are the future but remember they run/recharge from electricity and currently most electricity comes primarily from fossil fuels which have to be burned to produce that electricity. So while the electric engine in a car obviously does not produce emissions like a gas engine does there are still emissions in the production of the electricity used by that EV. Wind and solar sound "green" but are unreliable and simply too inefficient for the power demands of society (lets not even get into the footprint/aesthetics required for these two sources of energy). An average natural gas well produces 53 watts per square meter, wind 1.2 watts per square meter (when blowing of course), and solar 6.7 watts when the sun is shining.

While the distance issue is gradually improving, there is also the issue of decreased performance/distance of EVs in cold climates.

EVs will have there place around town, but until you can pull into a station and change/charge batteries in a few minutes they will simply not work for longer trips, not to mention the needs of many of us to pull a boat trailer behind our SUV.

Electric motors might work fine on a small aluminum rowboat or dinghy but I think we are probably many, many years away until we see the power my Yamaha 250 SHO produces vs a comparable electric engine/battery combination weight-wise.

It seems that the California CARB is not concerned about the practical effect on the boating industry in California.
 

Michiman

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Some time ago I read a book titled "Power Hungry" which was, I believe, well researched. Maybe electric motors in cars and boats are the future but remember they run/recharge from electricity and currently most electricity comes primarily from fossil fuels which have to be burned to produce that electricity. So while the electric engine in a car obviously does not produce emissions like a gas engine does there are still emissions in the production of the electricity used by that EV. Wind and solar sound "green" but are unreliable and simply too inefficient for the power demands of society (lets not even get into the footprint/aesthetics required for these two sources of energy). An average natural gas well produces 53 watts per square meter, wind 1.2 watts per square meter (when blowing of course), and solar 6.7 watts when the sun is shining.

While the distance issue is gradually improving, there is also the issue of decreased performance/distance of EVs in cold climates.

EVs will have there place around town, but until you can pull into a station and change/charge batteries in a few minutes they will simply not work for longer trips, not to mention the needs of many of us to pull a boat trailer behind our SUV.

Electric motors might work fine on a small aluminum rowboat or dinghy but I think we are probably many, many years away until we see the power my Yamaha 250 SHO produces vs a comparable electric engine/battery combination weight-wise.

It seems that the California CARB is not concerned about the practical effect on the boating industry in California.
Not to mention the dark side of battery and solar panel manufacturing (child labor, toxic pollution, etc.). I doubt any of us isn't for a cleaner environment, but unfortunately the technology just doesn't exist at this time to truly be "green". Again, that said, some EV's are a hoot to drive.
 

goldnrod24

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Not to mention the dark side of battery and solar panel manufacturing (child labor, toxic pollution, etc.). I doubt any of us isn't for a cleaner environment, but unfortunately the technology just doesn't exist at this time to truly be "green". Again, that said, some EV's are a hoot to drive.
It's pretty hard to separate the pepper from the fly poop on this one as these "allegations" may or may not be true. There are a lot of winners and losers to come in the transition from predominately ICE-powered vehicles (lands, air, water) and it's hard to know the accuracy of some of these claims.

Only one thing is for certain. As Bob Dylan said, "The times, they are a changin'."
 

goldnrod24

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On a similar note: "Suzuki Outboards moves forward with its innovative plan to install filters on their engines that would remove microplastics from the water. (Microplastics are currently one of the biggest long-term threats to the marine ecosystem) passively, simply as the engine was running. This device is but one part of the company’s larger Clean Oceans Project initiative, through which Suzuki is applying its technical expertise, resources and manpower to help make a positive impact for aquatic environments.

Suzuki is conducting testing a and research at its Panama City, Florida test center."

Source: Boating Magazine's Facebook page.

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Bill N

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What is the source or origin of these "microplastics"?
 

Potomacbassin’

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I would be suspect of anything written by Boattest.com as they basically act as an advertising arm for manufacturers - almost all positive reviews of everything that I've read, I'm sure it's a paid review and not terribly objective.

But it's a fact that CARB has been studying cats for outboards for some time. What's objectionable to me is that modern 4-strokes already emit a fraction of what old 2-strokes used to put out, so by targeting percentage reductions it's ignoring the massive reductions already have in hand. You can always cut something in half, then half again all the way to infinity but there is a point of diminishing returns - at that point your time, legislative energy and consumer dollars are better directed elsewhere to save the planet.

California wildfires probably do more harm for the environment than emissions from 4-stroke outboards, so why not start there. Too many people doing stupid things there in a drought-prone part of the country and we're just asking for these things to happen.
 

Bill N

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I would be suspect of anything written by Boattest.com as they basically act as an advertising arm for manufacturers - almost all positive reviews of everything that I've read, I'm sure it's a paid review and not terribly objective.

But it's a fact that CARB has been studying cats for outboards for some time. What's objectionable to me is that modern 4-strokes already emit a fraction of what old 2-strokes used to put out, so by targeting percentage reductions it's ignoring the massive reductions already have in hand. You can always cut something in half, then half again all the way to infinity but there is a point of diminishing returns - at that point your time, legislative energy and consumer dollars are better directed elsewhere to save the planet.

California wildfires probably do more harm for the environment than emissions from 4-stroke outboards, so why not start there. Too many people doing stupid things there in a drought-prone part of the country and we're just asking for these things to happen.
Way too much common sense in that post. We can't be for speaking common sense.
 

Vikingstaff

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Like you mention Potomacbassin, I think the 4 stroke improvements compared to the ole 2 strokes is a hugely overlooked aspect as well. I think it’s good to keep pushing cleaner and greener tech. Push it hard. However, that doesn’t mean we don‘t stay flexible and balanced, and harness improvements in all areas as we make them.
 

Spoiledrotten

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This is why people are leaving California.
This is why people are leaving California.

The problem with people leaving comifornia is the same with people leaving most crappy places to escape the stuff they hate. They usually take the desire to rebuild/relive the same stuff they wanted to escape.
 

PartyBarge

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I would be suspect of anything written by Boattest.com as they basically act as an advertising arm for manufacturers - almost all positive reviews of everything that I've read, I'm sure it's a paid review and not terribly objective.
BIG OL' +1 ON THAT! To be sure, they present useful info, but beware of advertising hype.

It is a shame that so many people have been conditioned to call all hydrocarbon fuels "fossil fuels" (propaganda works). Mother Earth produces ENORMOUS quantities of nature gas (mostly methane) every day (and by way of that liquid hydrocarbons too). The reason there is rarely, if ever, carbon dating on anything other than coal is because the results are all over the ball park. One of the reasons for that is production has been going on for eons, up to and including today.

Internal and external combustion of hydrocarbons done cleanly simply adds another player in the carbon cycle. It's really quite nice that the additional CO2 promotes plant growth leading to ever more methane...sweet!. When electric vehicles of any sort are ready for prime time, I'll be happy to switch. Cars/trucks are getting there, but energy intensive uses like airplanes and large boats are a looong way off....fun to talk about, nothing more. In the meantime, internal combustion engines continue to develop and the end of that is not in sight.
 

lakeliving

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The boattest stuff for the evinrude G2 was done literally in my back yard. They sure did their best to hype them but this is Yamaha country.
 
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