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VitiminJ

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I'm starting another thread in hopes to get some feedback. If the mods have an issue I can take it down.

I've read quite a bit but I still felt I needed to post a new thread because I cannot find consistent information. I'm just not sure which to go with. I've read different takes on here compared to the suggestion of my dealer. I'm looking to replace because I took a chunk out of mine pulling out of a slip at a restaurant. Basically the guy next to me pushed his boat out just after me and I had to turn towards the shore and I bottomed out. Dealer told me it was a $150 fix but I'm kicking around upgrading.

My boat - 22' SXP with standard 25" logs.

Motor - 115 VMax - I have no idea how high it is mounted or the WOT speed now. I'm also not sure the specs of the current prop. I don't know if the motor comes with a factory prop or the dealer installs a prop of their choice.

What we do - mostly putz around. But we do tube and honestly I often wish the 115 had a little more at WOT. Will a new prop get me a little more?

Dealer suggested a Yamaha SS Talon 6H1-45978-00 14" x 13 pitch. He said I could get an extra 4MPH with it. Not sure if he's right but if I'm honest with myself I like the look of a SS prop with the VMax colors! Heck of a reason to upgrade! Money grows on trees anyway.

$598 installed. This may be higher than other dealers but I'm okay paying a little more. I find spending money helps the relationship. They store and dock the boat for us.

Most SS Talon's are around $525 ish online.

As always - your help is appreciated and worth the price charged....free.
 
VitiminJ said:
I'm starting another thread in hopes to get some feedback. If the mods have an issue I can take it down.

I've read quite a bit but I still felt I needed to post a new thread because I cannot find consistent information. I'm just not sure which to go with. I've read different takes on here compared to the suggestion of my dealer. I'm looking to replace because I took a chunk out of mine pulling out of a slip at a restaurant. Basically the guy next to me pushed his boat out just after me and I had to turn towards the shore and I bottomed out. Dealer told me it was a $150 fix but I'm kicking around upgrading.

My boat - 22' SXP with standard 25" logs.

Motor - 115 VMax - I have no idea how high it is mounted or the WOT speed now. I'm also not sure the specs of the current prop. I don't know if the motor comes with a factory prop or the dealer installs a prop of their choice.

What we do - mostly putz around. But we do tube and honestly I often wish the 115 had a little more at WOT. Will a new prop get me a little more?

Dealer suggested a Yamaha SS Talon 6H1-45978-00 14" x 13 pitch. He said I could get an extra 4MPH with it. Not sure if he's right but if I'm honest with myself I like the look of a SS prop with the VMax colors! Heck of a reason to upgrade! Money grows on trees anyway.

$598 installed. This may be higher than other dealers but I'm okay paying a little more. I find spending money helps the relationship. They store and dock the boat for us.

Most SS Talon's are around $525 ish online.

As always - your help is appreciated and worth the price charged....free.
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Dealer puts on the prop. The boat and motor do not come with them from the factory. Thus, original propping is a dealership decision unless directed by the buyer to something specific.

I am skeptical that a SS will = +4 mph with your set up (dual toons, 115 Vmax). If you had a tritoon, I could see it. But with the dual pontoons, I do not.

Additionally, everything I’ve always heard is aluminum props don’t begin to flex until 150 HP and up. Thus, you should still be able to max out your performance with the right aluminum prop on your 115 Vmax, and do it for much less money.

Another possible consideration is the very accident you had. With your old aluminum prop, the prop absorbed the impact and part of it broke off/bent. A SS prop would not break, but unfortunately it would transfer that impact into your lower unit. You might have ended up okay, or you might have come out with a damaged lower unit and significant repair costs. No way to know for sure, but SS are more likely to do that. That impact transfer is always a risk those of us with SS props take on. Obviously if a total fluke, and you are otherwise not likely to have a repeat of that incident, then this isn’t necessarily a concern. Sorry for all the “what ifs” here....

I cannot speak to an actual prop recommendation as I have a totally different motor on a tritoon. I know others with your set up can speak to what is working best for them. I just thought I’d toss out a few additional things to consider.

Now....I agree the SS look better. Also, with the right one, you wont lose performance. Thus, if you like the look, are willing to pay more for that look assuming performance doesn’t really change, and you really do not see it as being likely to repeat hitting something with your prop, I don’t see anything wrong with the change. But if you are doing it for more performance, I think it would have to do less with change from aluminum to SS, and more to do with dialing in the proper size propr and engine mount. But since you don’t have that info, there is no way currently to gauge that part of it all.
 
Great info. Thanks Viking. I’ll get the correct prop size and motor height so we can dial in a new prop.
 
Okay I stopped by my dealer and got some information. Talking with one of them he said Yamaha suggests the props they put on. It's a "balanced" prop that gives you pretty equal levels for speed, hole shot, etc. From there you can make adjustments and tweet the category you want more of. It's a give and take. More speed may reduce hole shot, etc. Not new information for you guys but it was informative for me.

He said they mount all their motors for pontoon the same. All the way up. Or maybe down? lol.

I have 6EK-45945 aluminum prop. 13.5" x 12. Can I get the same in SS or is there a prop that can give me a little more speed?

I'm not too concerned about bottoming out again.
 
I just bought a 2021Sweetwater 2286 sbx with a vmax 115, it came with an aluminum 135/8" x 14". With this prop, 4 people on board, no trim, the rpm was 6400 and climbing. I throttled back @6400 as the max rpm is 6300. Speed was only 26.6 mph (very underwhelming for a tritoon boat), no pull from 4000-6400 rpm.

The third tube is a 27" sport tube, all tubes have lifting strakes. I chose the VF115 for my 2021 Sweetwater 2286 SBX for cruising and water-sports activities; since the 150 was heavier and more expensive. After much research, and discussion with my dealer/friend, I purchased a Talon SS4 13.25 X16 prop. This is for cruising/tubing/waterskiing/fuel economy, and handling, we normally cruise around at 10-15 mph. I hope to achieve about 5800-6000 rpm without trim; with trim 6100-6300rpm, and 30-35 mph. with 2-4 people and 3/4 fuel on board. The prop is on back order through the middle of April (from PartsVu), will post after water test. Generally speaking, the diameter of a four-blade prop is smaller than that of a three-blade prop with the same pitch. A smaller diameter prop helps a four-blade spin up quickly and allows the motor to rev as high as it would with a three-blade of comparable pitch (theoretically). As you can see, the new prop has a smaller diameter than the original aluminum prop, but has 4 blades and 2" more pitch.

I did use the Mercury/Yamaha Prop selector. Will update after sea trials.
 
VitiminJ said:
I have 6EK-45945 aluminum prop. 13.5" x 12. Can I get the same in SS or is there a prop that can give me a little more speed?
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The prop you have is a pontoon-rated prop and most people report excellent results IF it is the right pitch for your application. I'd say your dealer gave you a good starting point and there MAY be no significant advantage to change. What was your WOT RPM before the damage?

I am currently messing with that same prop. HOWEVER, our motor is set up two holes and the calculated slip on our pontoon (23" twin tube) is ~30+%. That is at least double what others report and likely due to our motor set too high. That said, acceleration is very good and max RPM is 5900. Our 13p Quicksilver Nemesis (aluminum 4-blade, Merc Spitfire clone) is way better at the current motor setting (calculated slip ~15%). Plan to move the motor down at least one hole and retest. Expect the Talon really needs that and the Nemesis will benefit too.

Anyway, the point is the 12p Talon MAY be a good choice for your 115 HP too because the gear ratios are normally different from our 90 HP motor to your 115. You're on the right track as you really need to gather more info before just throwing money at prop guesses.

BTW: I like the looks of the black Nemesis versus the white Talon, SS is no help. Sometimes SS props give better performance (speed) not because of reduced flex, but because the blades are thinner with more sophisticated design (resulting in less prop drag). Downsides are cost and a heavier/stronger prop that can increase lower unit stress. You may not know it now, but you'll miss the SDS hub if you buy a heavy prop without it... Also, I'd suggest you not even think about a prop that is not pontoon rated.
 
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PartyBarge is right on with is post (above). Seems that we have the same motor: Yamaha VF115 SHO. The WOT range is 5300 ~ 6300. You must establish the max rpm with your current prop, then you can use either the Mercury or Yamaha prop selector (I like the Mercury prop selector).

The key, I believe is to prop your boat as close to the max rpm of the motor, which would be 6300 rpm, with normal load (people/fuel/gear), then adjust prop size using those prop selector, water sports, top speed, cruise. This should get you in the ball park.

A 4-blade prop will give you better hole shot, dock handling and fuel economy.

Will update after my sea trials.
 
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VitiminJ said:
Current WOT is 6200. Prop now is 13.5” x 12
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Once you have the data to use the prop selector, you might also what to run it through the Merc slip calculator. That can tell you how well the prop is hooking. If the calculated slip comes out less than 15%, you aren't going to gain much for general purpose use. However, if you decide to focus on top end, a more sophisticated prop might help, but likely will sacrifice some other performance. Do you remember how much RPM change you are seeing from light loads to heavy/towing?

Prop Slip Calculator | Mercury Racing

Quickly determine slip for Mercury Racing propellers using our prop slip calculator.
www.mercuryracing.com www.mercuryracing.com
 
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So much info. Thanks everyone. I love the black Nemesis as well. Any issues with after market props? Will it void the warranty or anything crazy. My dealer is out of props and is very backordered. He said he'd toss on any prop I could get my hands on though.
 
Quicksilver/Merc have hardware kits to mount the Nemesis/Spitfire props on other motor brands. I don't know of any warranty issues, but would be best to get up-to-date info from your dealer. A 13p Nemesis pontoon will likely drop your WOT RPM something like 3-400. The 11p would put you in an over rev condition (there is no 12p pontoon, they should make one...).

Guess you could buy a new Talon and paint of powder coat it.....
 
Genius! I'll have it powder coated! I wonder if that would throw off the balance?

I noticed the Nemesis didn't come in a 12P.
 
Doubt it, on a high-tech prop I'd be more concerned about throwing off measurements or flow pattern...in that case thousands matter.
 
Prop ordered. Contacted the powder coater. $35 for matte black. $225 for red. I was kicking around red to match the boat and be different but that's a chunk of change.
 
I would be worried about a few things on powder coating:

1) props flex, so the amount of coating needed to prevent flaking MAY change the dynamics of the prop? Certainly the cupping and leading edges may lose geometry and that may negatively impact performamce?

2) PC a prop would probably kill your ability to return the prop or sell it for market value.

3) Once you PC a prop, it will wear over time so are you prepared to continually PC this thing every year or two?

4) there are probably marine-specific coatings out there that are made for props and could be better and cheaper than PC

Perhaps baseline the performance of the prop first before powder coating, then you'll know if #1 above applies.
 
Potomacbassin’ said:
I would be worried about a few things on powder coating:

1) props flex, so the amount of coating needed to prevent flaking MAY change the dynamics of the prop? Certainly the cupping and leading edges may lose geometry and that may negatively impact performamce?

2) PC a prop would probably kill your ability to return the prop or sell it for market value.

3) Once you PC a prop, it will wear over time so are you prepared to continually PC this thing every year or two?

4) there are probably marine-specific coatings out there that are made for props and could be better and cheaper than PC

Perhaps baseline the performance of the prop first before powder coating, then you'll know if #1 above applies.
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Some good points in here. My aluminum prop is painted white and yes it does wear the paint off. I think PC would hold up better. But I think I have a different plan to get in the water ASPA. The new prop comes tomorrow. I'll put that one on and use the dealers repair guy to fix my prop. They mix any chips in the prop and paint it. I'll see if he can paint it a different color other than white. That will leave me with an extra prop too.
 
VitiminJ said:
Some good points in here. My aluminum prop is painted white and yes it does wear the paint off. I think PC would hold up better. But I think I have a different plan to get in the water ASPA. The new prop comes tomorrow. I'll put that one on and use the dealers repair guy to fix my prop. They mix any chips in the prop and paint it. I'll see if he can paint it a different color other than white. That will leave me with an extra prop too.
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You have it right - a spare will come in very handy especially if you're sticking with aluminum. Even if it's ugly, if it spins and gets you to point B, at least you're not dead in the water until a replacement shows up.

I was more concerned about power coating the prop. Paint is completely appropriate, as could other applications made specifically for marine props. I'm sure the PC will look better and possibly last longer, but I'd worry if it could hurt performance. Something as simple as rounding those intentionally square trailing edges could significantly increase cavitation and reduce efficiency. Or so I've read - may not matter in your case, but that's why I recommend baselining before making any mods.

Good luck!
 
Facts:
1) Godfrey 2286 SBX Sweetwater tritoon boat,
2) Yamaha VF115 SHO,
3) 4 people/30 gal gas,
4) boat came with Yamaha 135/8 x 14 K series,
5) tritoon ran 6450 rpm @26.6 mph (rpm range. 5500-6300).

Hereʻs my update on the Talon SS4 13.25 X16 prop. We did a sea trial on 5/1/21. 3 people on board 15 gal of gas: motor STRUGGLED to turn this prop: 4650 rpm @22mph. Evidently, the boat is too heavy for this prop, since I lost 1800 rpm and 5 mph. Be very careful when you switch from a 3 blade to a 4 blade, and increase pitch by 2 ". Mercury prop selector gave me: SpitFire® Mercalloy 4 13.4 15 RH. The Talon prop was the closest I could get with a Yamaha prop in SS with SDS hub.
Back to the drawing board.
 
Interesting that the same problem (excessive slip) rears it's ugly head in both cases, but for different reasons. Your old prop is not well suited to the drag profile/speed range of your pontoon. Thus, the calculated slip is 30+%. The new prop is way too much for the motor/load and does not allow the motor into the fat part of the power curve. Per typical at the low speed of only 22 MPH, the prop isn't going to hookup very well and calculated slip is again ~30% (also due to low prop RPM).

You are on the right track in switching to a more sophisticated/pontoon prop that should have way less slip for your application, but the first attempt has significantly too much pitch and can't operate well at such a low speed. Yamaha's SS pontoon prop in 13p (even if it is a 3-blade) would have been a preferable starting point. If you should want to make the next attempt less expensive, try the Yamaha Talon Pontoon in 12p (3-blade aluminum) or the Quicksilver Nemesis pontoon in 13P (4-blade aluminum, Merc Spitfire twin).

Without mention of your intended use for the pontoon, prop guesses are hard to make, but expect a 15p Nemesis/Spitfire are going to be too much of a good thing too. We normally run a 13p Nemesis and it is plenty. The reason that prop might work well for you is that both the desired RPM range and the gear ratio for your motor are different.
 
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