New Yamaha Prop - SWS II HP

[David G]

Spoke with my dealership, one of the largest in the DFW area. They have never steered me wrong.
My New 24' Tritoon has a F300 spinning a 14.5 by 15 Yamaha prop, and it will spin fairly easily to 6150-6200 RPM, Speedo is @ 42 MPH, which is exactly what Boattest.com says my boat will go.
Is ther any Benefit to jump to a 19 pitch?

 

[JDB]

Not unless you want to fix most of your problems like over revving, excessive fuel burn and low top speed.

 

[David G]

Not unless you want to fix most of your problems like over revving, excessive fuel burn and low top speed.

So with a 19 Pitch, I could gain top speed with no sacrifice to punch?
Most people with these boats are only getting 40-42 top speed. I can get 6150 pretty easy, I am still running on 1st tank of dealer added 87 octane fuel too. The F300 requires min octane of 89, so I think broken in and the right fuel it will go 6200 RPM-which should be 42 MPH.

 

[Vikingstaff]

So with a 19 Pitch, I could gain top speed with no sacrifice to punch?
Most people with these boats are only getting 40-42 top speed. I can get 6150 pretty easy, I am still running on 1st tank of dealer added 87 octane fuel too. The F300 requires min octane of 89, so I think broken in and the right fuel it will go 6200 RPM-which should be 42 MPH.

Is the max RPM on that Yamaha f300 6000 RPM at WOT? Each increase in pitch size usually drops RPM’s about 200-250. In theory you could minimally go up to the 16p with the numbers you are reporting. A jump all the way to 19p seems excessive given the numbers you shared.

Also, you mention you have a Yamaha prop. Which one? The SWSII? Specific prop is important in trying to get advice on changing it up based on your current numbers.

If really dialing it in, once past your break in period, take it out with as follows:

* 1/2 tank of the proper fuel or less,
* no more than 1 other person,
* no gear,
* on calm water.

Track your RPM at WOT under these conditions, and probably speed for curiosity sake. No point trying to dial it in when not testing it out with the right variables in play.

IF your max RPM is in fact 6000 RPM at WOT, and you are above it, you can rudimentary estimate which increased prop pitch to try based on what I mentioned above: +1 pitch = -200-250 RPM.

Unfortunatley there just are not a lot of bow rider owners in here yet. Ideally someone in here has an R series bow rider with your f300. They are about the only ones that can give you the short cut to what prop is working best with them. You might be the only one right now with this combo in here…?

Since that is such a unique hull, I would not trust what other R-series owners with an f300 are using as a prop if they have the SPS or ESP hull. Yours is too different with that really wide center hull/toon.

 

[David G]

Is the max RPM on that Yamaha f300 6000 RPM at WOT? Each increase in pitch size usually drops RPM’s about 200-250. In theory you could minimally go up to the 16p with the numbers you are reporting. A jump all the way to 19p seems excessive given the numbers you shared.

Also, you mention you have a Yamaha prop. Which one? The SWSII? Specific prop is important in trying to get advice on changing it up based on your current numbers.

If really dialing it in, once past your break in period, take it out with as follows:

* 1/2 tank of the proper fuel or less,
* no more than 1 other person,
* no gear,
* on calm water.

Track your RPM at WOT under these conditions, and probably speed for curiosity sake. No point trying to dial it in when not testing it out with the right variables in play.

IF your max RPM is in fact 6000 RPM at WOT, and you are above it, you can rudimentary estimate which increased prop pitch to try based on what I mentioned above: +1 pitch = -200-250 RPM.

Unfortunatley there just are not a lot of bow rider owners in here yet. Ideally someone in here has an R series bow rider with your f300. They are about the only ones that can give you the short cut to what prop is working best with them. You might be the only one right now with this combo in here…?

Since that is such a unique hull, I would not trust what other R-series owners with an f300 are using as a prop if they have the SPS or ESP hull. Yours is too different with that really wide center hull/toon.

Thank you! I looked and my motor RPM range is 5500-6000, I have hit 6150-6200, I think the REV limiter is 6300, so I guess it is overreving.
I Think it is a salt water series2

 

[lakelifeMN]

Spoke with my dealership, one of the largest in the DFW area. They have never steered me wrong.
My New 24' Tritoon has a F300 spinning a 14.5 by 15 Yamaha prop, and it will spin fairly easily to 6150-6200 RPM, Speedo is @ 42 MPH, which is exactly what Boattest.com says my boat will go.
Is ther any Benefit to jump to a 19 pitch?

I have the ESP with a 300 and my dealer said the best prop after lake testing was the 15.5 x 17 SWII. Mine is a 26 so similar in size. I had seen this prop on a bowrider they had sold too. They are one of the biggest dealers in the country and sell hundreds of boats a year. They hit 47 (I usually get up to about 45). Will have to look at RPM’s next time I’m out. Good luck!

 

[JDB]

The problem is you are against the rev limiter so hard its difficult to say how much power its costing you.

The RPM range for WOT is 5000 to 6000.

Max power is 5500 - 5700 and its dropping off after that.

If its a salt water Series 2 something is not adding up with that small diameter.

You might lose some punch but they generally have enough to spill everyone's beverage anyway don't they?

Contrary to popular belief you can actually run one between 5 and 6K at WOT as the manufacturer states. No need to over rev it.

 

[Bill N]

In a perfect scenario you will hit max recommended RPM (6000 in this case) with the lightest expected load. Then as load increases with passengers/towables you will still be within usable powerband.

 

[JDB]

I will argue thats not the perfect scenario if the fully loaded boat only pulls you down to 5600 but that might be a topic for another thread.

 

[Potomacbassin’]

The problem is you are against the rev limiter so hard its difficult to say how much power its costing you.

The RPM range for WOT is 5000 to 6000.

Max power is 5500 - 5700 and its dropping off after that.

If its a salt water Series 2 something is not adding up with that small diameter.

You might lose some punch but they generally have enough to spill everyone's beverage anyway don't they?

Contrary to popular belief you can actually run one between 5 and 6K at WOT as the manufacturer states. No need to over rev it.

There is no such thing as a 14.5 x 15 SWS2 prop - so you hit it on the nose JDB.

David G they probably put a Reliance prop on your engine which is the completely wrong prop for your HP application, it was designed with more of an I4 mid-HP in mind. You need WAY more blade area for a heavy pontoon which typically means more diameter or else that power just gets wasted i.e. slip. And as Viking noted with your unique hull you may have not have a lot of other owners who can give you some compatible test data - you'll probably have to do some testing on your own.

That said, you can't go wrong with two props as a starting point - a bigger SWS2 prop (16 or 17p) or an Enertia prop (17p). Either will do a fairly good job of putting the power into the water and giving you a good balance between holeshot and top speed. With an F300 it's even possible to expand your testing to a chunkier prop like a Mirage Plus or even to a 4-blade like a Revolution 4, although I'm not sure a lot of pontoon guys are running those.

My advice is to put in the time and money to try and get the right prop, otherwise you risk many years of lost performance and efficiency. Almost like running a marathon in flip flops!

 

[David G]

There is no such thing as a 14.5 x 15 SWS2 prop - so you hit it on the nose JDB.

David G they probably put a Reliance prop on your engine which is the completely wrong prop for your HP application, it was designed with more of an I4 mid-HP in mind. You need WAY more blade area for a heavy pontoon which typically means more diameter or else that power just gets wasted i.e. slip. And as Viking noted with your unique hull you may have not have a lot of other owners who can give you some compatible test data - you'll probably have to do some testing on your own.

That said, you can't go wrong with two props as a starting point - a bigger SWS2 prop (16 or 17p) or an Enertia prop (17p). Either will do a fairly good job of putting the power into the water and giving you a good balance between holeshot and top speed. With an F300 it's even possible to expand your testing to a chunkier prop like a Mirage Plus or even to a 4-blade like a Revolution 4, although I'm not sure a lot of pontoon guys are running those.

My advice is to put in the time and money to try and get the right prop, otherwise you risk many years of lost performance and efficiency. Almost like running a marathon in flip flops!

My dealer said if this prop is still like new they would swap it, no charge. It is a Yamaha prop. 14.5 by 15 thats on boat.
So a 15" by 17 pitch?

 

[Potomacbassin’]

My dealer said if this prop is still like new they would swap it, no charge. It is a Yamaha prop. 14.5 by 15 thats on boat.
So a 15" by 17 pitch?

Since a Yamaha then likely a Reliance.

Pitch selection will come down to 1) your performance objectives and 2) the design characteristics of your boat. You can control #1 but #2 will have to be from actually testing props on the water to see how the boat/hull respond. Load is also a consideration as Bill N noted but that will be variable and so you'll want some baseline data before making some load assumptions.

I would start with a 17p Yamaha SWS2 and see how it performs. It will give you a better balance of speed and hole shot versus a Mercury Enertia prop which leans toward more top speed. From there you will know based on RPM, top speed, fuel efficiency (assuming you have a gauge for MPG or GPH) and seat of the pants feel if you want to move up or down in pitch, or try a Mercury prop to really fine tune how close you get to those performance objectives.

Below is a chart of SWS2 props and you can see how pitch and diameter are inversely proportional. This illustrates how prop selection is often about tradeoffs, so identifying objectives and measuring performance is critical to finding that perfect prop and also keeping expectations in check.

Lastly regarding load, this is just my opinion but I try to use the 80/20 rule when determining if I'm in the desired RPM range. For me I fish by myself 80%+ of the time, so my prop is sized to get me into that mid-5000RPM range lightly loaded. But for others they may be with their families and friends most of the time, so they would want to pitch down on the prop to account for that. There is some art to this that you'll have to learn over time.

 

[David G]

Since a Yamaha then likely a Reliance.

Pitch selection will come down to 1) your performance objectives and 2) the design characteristics of your boat. You can control #1 but #2 will have to be from actually testing props on the water to see how the boat/hull respond. Load is also a consideration as Bill N noted but that will be variable and so you'll want some baseline data before making some load assumptions.

I would start with a 17p Yamaha SWS2 and see how it performs. It will give you a better balance of speed and hole shot versus a Mercury Enertia prop which leans toward more top speed. From there you will know based on RPM, top speed, fuel efficiency (assuming you have a gauge for MPG or GPH) and seat of the pants feel if you want to move up or down in pitch, or try a Mercury prop to really fine tune how close you get to those performance objectives.

Below is a chart of SWS2 props and you can see how pitch and diameter are inversely proportional. This illustrates how prop selection is often about tradeoffs, so identifying objectives and measuring performance is critical to finding that perfect prop and also keeping expectations in check.

Lastly regarding load, this is just my opinion but I try to use the 80/20 rule when determining if I'm in the desired RPM range. For me I fish by myself 80%+ of the time, so my prop is sized to get me into that mid-5000RPM range lightly loaded. But for others they may be with their families and friends most of the time, so they would want to pitch down on the prop to account for that. There is some art to this that you'll have to learn over time.


View attachment 30859

Thanks for all the help. I guess I need to get it broken in better then see where I am at, maybe I'll post up some speed after I get it with proper gas too. Right now still have 65% of 87 octane gas, less than 10 hrs on motor.

 

[JDB]

No pics yet but disappointed in the performance and fitment.
It has so much rake that they hit the steering trim tab which had to be notched.
It also has an increased tendency to porpoise that feels like it stops short any attempt at a top speed run.

Certainly not impressed thus far.

 

[Potomacbassin’]

No pics yet but disappointed in the performance and fitment.
It has so much rake that they hits the steering trim tab which had to be notched.
It also has an increased tendency to porpoise that feels like it stops short any attempt at a top speed run.

Certainly not impressed thus far.

Thanks for the report!

More rake than an Enertia (if you have one on previously)? The porpoising tendency is interesting - I wonder if there is too much bite/cupping that it's driving the bow out of the water instead of slipping like other props. Raising the motor might help to change that force angle a little if you're unable to trim out of it.

 

[JDB]

Have run the Enertia but unsure on the rake difference.
The SWS 2 HP is a full inch larger than the Enertia contributing to the contact from the higher rake.
Low speed vibration and bumping feel are noticeably worse. (No,Nothing was hitting)
I'm one hole up from lowest.
Water surface disturbance is notably worse.
I will test other heights but don't have high hopes at this point.

 

[PartyBarge]

You may benefit from something I've lifted from my reading. Note the multiple mention of lighter weight applications. These props may not be the best choice for the speed and drag profile of many pontoon boats. Similar general application info is in Yamaha data as well.

Most experienced boaters are aware of how propellers optimize performance, which is why Yamaha designed the HP version of its Saltwater Series II propeller. They are crafted to maximize speed on certain V6 applications that are not surface-piercing, specifically for lighter weight boats using Yamaha’s 4.2-liter V6 Offshore and 4.2-liter V MAX SHO 25-inch X-shaft platform. New blade geometry in the HP provides a potential speed advantage over the Saltwater Series II propeller in lighter-weight applications and feature Yamaha’s patented Shift Dampener System for quiet operation and reduced shift “clunk.” The props are available in 18-, 19-, 20-, and 21-inch pitches in right and left-hand rotation.

 

[JDB]

Dry Hull weight on my boat is actually 300 lbs less than the 247 Sportsman Yamaha apparently used for testing and advertising the props.

We also tested with a Light Load - 2 passengers and one ice chest and a Medium Load (for a pontoon) - 4 passengers and 2 Ice chests with very little change.

We did not try moving weight to the front however the Big Minn Kota was mounted all weekend.

 

[JDB]

More Reading:

"Designed and intended for lighter-weight F200-F300 V6 applications running a fully
submerged propeller, the new Saltwater Series II HP propeller also works well with most
lightweight center consoles, flats and bay boats and performance-oriented tri-toons with
lifting strakes when powered by Yamaha’s 4.2-liter V MAX SHO 250 horsepower or 200
horsepower X-shaft (25-inch) outboards."

 

[Potomacbassin’]

Have run the Enertia but unsure on the rake difference.
The SWS 2 HP is a full inch larger than the Enertia contributing to the contact from the higher rake.
Low speed vibration and bumping feel are noticeably worse. (No,Nothing was hitting)
I'm one hole up from lowest.
Water surface disturbance is notably worse.
I will test other heights but don't have high hopes at this point.

That low speed vibration was my experience with my SWSII prop, both the 19 and 16p. The Enertia I have on there now spins like butter so I wonder if the casting is better for Merc props or they do a better job of balancing them out of the factory. Only downside is the hub thumps more than the SDS on the Yamaha's.

I plan on sending both my props to a shop over the winter to get them labbed - I'm especially curious if they can get that vibration out of the Yam prop.

Disappointing about that HP prop, I'm sure it works for some applications but maybe they were really stretching when including tritoons in the marketing literature.