When navigation/fish finding options just won't work. Here's my solution.

billw6560

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First of all, this is not a complaint, but just my observations on the limited options available for medium range models. Living in Central Florida, we have two boating options, the Inter Coastal Waterway (ICW) just off the Atlantic in the New Smyrna Beach area, or the St Johns River. St Johns is about 200 miles long stretching from just north of Orlando up to Jacksonville, connecting to the Atlantic (ICW). We choose the fresh water St. Johns. It's a moderately wide river, about 300-500 feet in our immediate area, increasing as you go north. It's general depth varies greatly from about 10 to 30 feet or more in the main channel, and as little as 2-3 feet in some tributaries (feeder rivers/streams).

With that being said, to maximize the enjoyment of our boat, I really didn't want to play it safe and stay the the middle of the river, but really want to explore these side tributaries. The map below shows just s small portion of our section of the river, with all those wonderful spots to explore. Lots of nooks and crannies.

St. Johns River Map (Local).jpg
So, while you'll agree that pontoon boats in general have a relatively shallow draft, it's still a good idea to have some level of confidence that where you're getting yourself into, you can get out just as easily without running afoul of some minor obstacles like the bottom, tree limbs, hard obstructions, etc. So, at first, I thought that the Garmin Striker 4 might be an option, showing the depth from the transom, and the relative bottom contour. Of course, other than running a program like Navionics on my tablet, I have no live charting to go by.

20LLG Garmin Options 1.jpg
At first glance, this seems like a possibility. However, doing the ubiquitous and required Google search, I found that the Striker 4 has multiple mounting scenarios for my model series. In the Design Center view, it shows a nicely placed Striker right in the middle of the console, flanked with the "required" analog gauges. Note the Gotcha #1 statement in red. Upon further investigation, I later found that on my original model, the Striker 4 would be mounted on the lower part of the console's right side, way out of view. It would be hard to navigate these shallow streams, constantly looking (and squinting) down at the display, taking my eyes off the water, especially given the very small 3.5" display.

So, ok, that's not going to work. I then thought of the much more viable option. The Garmin 742 or Simrad Go7 multi-function 7" displays.

20LLG Garmin Options 2.jpg
So, I checked out the videos of both the Garmin and Simrad 7" display units. They were entertaining, but not very informative with regard to the actual installation. I then proceeded down to our local marine super store to check them out. My first impression was that while both units seemed capable in their own respects, the size was just not quite big enough to display for my tired eyes, and just doesn't have the charting detail I wanted. Note the Gotcha #2 statement in red. Additionally, especially given that I LOOSE all the analog gauges, I really didn't want to entirely rely on these singular displays. As an aside, while I actually like the Simrad's display options a little better (as of the 2020 model year), the display itself was grainier (not as clear) as the Garmin. I also looked at the 9" displays just for S&G's, and the Garmin was even better while the Simrad's resolution "appeared" to be the same resolution as the 7", but just using larger display pixels. I don't know if this is still the case in its current form.

Now, as a retired Automotive Test Engineer, I'm accustomed to designing custom test systems to fit specific requirements. Undeterred, I opted to go with the Garmin 9" 942xs display, while still retaining all the analog gauges. The BIG problem, how to mount it. I went through multiple scenarios, and as seen below, I finally went with a NavPod specifically cut for the 942xs, mounted on the right side of the console using various Ram Mounts. I had originally wanted to mount the Garmin in the top center of the console, but there just isn't a way to mount it, short of removing the mini-windshield.

Garmin-VHF 7a.jpg
Now for me, the right side position is perfect, giving me good sightlines ahead while giving me a direct view of the Garmin's display at a glance. One of the biggest advantages to the Garmin, is the ability to read my Yamaha F90B engines data via the NMEA 2000 buss. While I'm getting valuable data for things like Fuel Flow (to give me data to determine optimal fuel efficiency, cruise speed, etc.), unfortunately, I'm not seeing other data like oil pressure, temperature, etc. If anyone has a solution to this, please let me know.

And not settling for just the 942xs, I went all the way and added a Standard Horizon GX1800 VHF radio to round out my pontoon "yacht" setup. See the final larger image below that shows the installation in more detail. While the ACC switch appears to be obscured (lower right) by the Ram Mount, it's still accessible. If desired, I can provide part numbers and a brief outline of how all these units were mounted and wired. I also have the radio tied to the Garmin's NMEA 0183 GPS position data output so that the radio can use the Automated Distress Messaging capabilities of the radio.

To summarize, while this may seem overkill to some, it would be if you were on a deep water lake or river with few obstructions. For me, having the capability of "seeing" what the bottom contour is, has saved my bacon, not to mention, my prop and toons. The only thing I would consider changing (upgrading), is a forward looking (and very expensive) sonar transducer. But that's for another day. The only other thing I may have done differently, would be to use a black NavPod (and radio). Unfortunately, when I bought it, the black model was out of stock everywhere.

As for the Bennington options issue, yes, I don't have one of those QX rockets, along with their price tag, that supports the 9" displays, etc. nav options. For me, my 20LLG is a wonderful boat which I/we intend to enjoy for many years to come. Finally, I want to give props to Bennington's tech/sales department, who were a great help in pointing me in the right direction, and providing me technical information to help me with the installation.

I hope my experiences here have inspired and informed. Thanks for looking, Bill.

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Great write up. Thanks for taking the time do document your project so well.
 
Unless I don't know how to access the best chart/GPS my simrad is very Kmart looking
There is one set of cheap looking non-detailed maps in it. It looks pretty Kmart’ish. There is another that is much better, and more precise with water depths, commonly known points of interest, blah, blah, blah. I think the other set of detailed maps seems more precise, professional and nice. Maybe dig into menus. Then again, maybe my standards are low and you are already into that nicer map and not liking it…?
 
There is one set of cheap looking non-detailed maps in it. It looks pretty Kmart’ish. There is another that is much better, and more precise with water depths, commonly known points of interest, blah, blah, blah. I think the other set of detailed maps seems more precise, professional and nice. Maybe dig into menus. Then again, maybe my standards are low and you are already into that nicer map and not liking it…?
I've never really looked into it and as a result I don't use it very well, finally learned how to dim the screen at night
 
Unless I don't know how to access the best chart/GPS my simrad is very Kmart looking
Here’s how mine looks. Is this the same as yours?1625192783819.jpeg
The Simrad app on my phone is more detailed and looks fancier though. Even shows the shallows and channel too.
1625193147610.png
Wish I could get that same map on my Simrad on the boat…
 

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No No No, I haven't seen that.
That’s the one I use too. 2nd map I referred to from chip. Soooo much better. On my lake it really shows a ton of information. Fishing spots, under water obstructions, points of interest, water depth lines, weed beds, and so on and so on. I find it very helpful and nice. You can get to it in your menus. Dealer should have had it set up for you at purchase with the Simrad.
 
Nice job Bill!

Not sure why you can't get additional engine data on your MFD - here is mine, second screen with oil press and water temp.

It's an Echomap Ultra 106sv so that might give me the extra bell or whistle.




A6A5927E-2C6C-4EE0-AD24-51CC3E6E7062.jpeg
 
Weather here has been less than ideal for boating over the last several weeks (not to mention the potential of Iris coming our way), but the next time I go out, I'll snap a picture of my full screen engine data. Mine looks nothing like yours. One thing that I see that I have difficulty correcting, is that I keep seeing the display asking to select one of multiple engines I want to assign to a "gauge". Of course, I have only one engine, and you'd think that the Garmin was smart enough to know that, and know the specific engine make and model is attached via the NMEA2000 buss. I vaguely remember something like that being asked various setup options on initial setup, but you'd think that the the unit's defaults should be resetable after the fact.

According to Yamaha and Garmin, they were supposed to be particularly compatible and well suited to work together, and being my Yamaha F90LB along with the Garmin is supposed to be the latest generation, I should be able to see many engine parameters, but no joy. All I get are dead gauges of the aforementioned oil pressure, engine temperature, etc. Of course, my general diagnosing time is generally limited to the time between all are settling in on board, and the ropes are off the cleats, lol. You know how it is ("You can play with your toys later. Let get going.").

By the way, I like your mount. As I recall, your MFD model type had a Garmin optional snap-on mount bracket, whereas the 942xs did not, and I had to go with the NavPod and a beefy Ram Mount to hold it stable.
 
You're correct, my Garmin came with the bail mount which allows the quick disconnect - there's no way I'm leaving a $2k gadget on the boat after hours so it's a big time saver. The Balzout mount (terrible name) simply bolts to the Garmin mount and is super strong. I chose it over the Ram or Scotty mounts because the B.Out has detents that ensure zero movement, whereas the others even when tightened with a wrench can still wiggle free. The down side is the detents prevent infinite positioning.

The alarms are normal - happened to me as well but they no longer happen. IIRC there is an auto-detect setting that you enable or disable and it goes away permanently.

The NEMA data coming from the motor for sure has everything and more - I suspect (but could be wrong) that it's either a setting or communication protocol setup or the MFD itself isn't set up to read it. See first link below. Also note that in order to get that CL7 emulation I believe you would have to spend $300 on the Yamaha gateway.

Lots of info over on The Hull Truth so might be worth digging around.

Good luck!



 
Yes, I'm afraid that the salesman at the marine super store told me wrong, specifically asking if this model would display all the engine data, which he acknowledged. I did see the 942xs Plus has a J1939 port that's noted for monitoring engine data, specifically noting Yamaha engines. What's a bit confusing is that Garmin says you need a "Yamaha Engine Gateway" that's on the J1939 buss, that my 942xs doesn't have, all told, more than $600 extra. I wrote Garmin directly to get clarification on this. While the fuel flow (gal/hr) data IS very important (which I DO get), the rest is bells and whistles. Fortunately for now, my cruising area is limited to the St Johns River, and with the sonar, charting, and some engine data, I'm pretty happy with the Garmin.

BTW, I too was very concerned having that bulbous white NavPod sticking out like a beacon in the night. Fortunately, the Ram Mounts I choose, and the way I mounted them, don't lend themselves to easy disassembly. All the screws that attach the Garmin to the NavPod are Locktight'ed internally, and the position adjustment T-Handle is a security type that won't rotate more than one turn, enough to tweak the position, but will not be able to be removed without a special tool. In any case, I have a separate cover for the entire console that hides everything.
 
From all the posts that I've read, most "experts" on the matter say not to believe anything Garmin or Yamaha says or writes. Yamaha wants to sell it's own proprietary engine displays so making it clear and easy how to get the same data on a MFD isn't in their best interests. And I'm sure Garmin is trying to play nice as well.

Engine data from the motor is N2K - the J1939 pigtail I believe needs the Yamaha gateway to translate it from NMEA to J1939, and with that you get the fancier CL7 emulation. I don't have a J1939 port on mine so I'm stuck with the "basic" gauge layout. But you should be able to get all of N2K data thats sent out by the engine (anything under Typical sender column listed as N2K compatible engine).

4D2428DF-7C64-4F89-A25C-49DDF8C1C659.jpeg
 
From all the posts that I've read, most "experts" on the matter say not to believe anything Garmin or Yamaha says or writes. Yamaha wants to sell it's own proprietary engine displays so making it clear and easy how to get the same data on a MFD isn't in their best interests. And I'm sure Garmin is trying to play nice as well.

Engine data from the motor is N2K - the J1939 pigtail I believe needs the Yamaha gateway to translate it from NMEA to J1939, and with that you get the fancier CL7 emulation. I don't have a J1939 port on mine so I'm stuck with the "basic" gauge layout. But you should be able to get all of N2K data thats sent out by the engine (anything under Typical sender column listed as N2K compatible engine).

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What???
 
All good points. The chart makes perfect sense. Coming from the automotive industry, OE also has many digital standards (i.e. ECU engine data), and all manufacturers are supposed to follow them, BUT, and that's a BIG BUTT, they may spit out some common data streams, but not everything is visible for every make and model. They view these as proprietary. In the end, if I'm unable to "see" all the standard N2K data from the engine, then as has been said, if you want all the data, you may have to use their solutions, and their hardware. It will be interesting to see what Garmin says in response to my inquiry.
 
I guess these OEMs all learn from each other, and makes sense how they protect certain design elements to keep us coming to their "store".

Out of curiosity, what data do you get when you go to the second page on your engine data?


5C73E283-840A-4686-9E34-A1BB07CADBDB.jpeg
 
I'll have to get back to you on this. I don't know exactly what all I have access to, other than the few gauges I tried to setup that were not responsive/dead, showing no data (i.e. oil pressure, etc).
 
I was able to get down to the boat today, and did some testing to see what data is actually available from the Yamaha F90LB. As seen below (sorry for the poor picture quality), the associated Yamaha NMEA 2000 Data Table shows what's supposed to be available, but in actuality, not all data can be displayed. Referring to the Test Status table, there's NO data for anything related to the engine's Oil system. On the gauge assignment menu (not seen here), it lists multiple options for the "Engine" category, but as seen, Fuel Pressure, Oil Pressure, Trim, and Water Pressure cannot be displayed. Note though that the the Trim/Tilt and Fuel Level, while available on the consoles analog gauges (apparently driven by a separate analog data buss), are not shown on the Garmin via N2K data.

Besides the "Engine" catagory, there's other separate categories of gauge assignment options, like Pressure, Levels, etc. Of course, NONE of these work (I tried them all). I'm assuming that this is probably related to the optional "Command Link" system.

Garmin-942xs-Yamaha NMEA 2000 Data - Test Results.jpg
 
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