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Building a shed/shop for the Benny do's/don'ts

BulldogsCadillac

BulldogsCadillac

Just some guy
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Dauphin, Manitoba
Okay, so I'm in dream land again, trying to figure out what are good options to have and what is not. Feel free to give me any advice!! I don't want to break the bank with this as it will be an hour away from my home, so it won't be used as an everyday, mostly just for parking the boat and probably some junk my dad will pack in it!! So here is a general description of it. Tell me what needs to be changed.

* 30x45 with 16' walls

* I'm thinking a 20x14 overhead door on the 30' side

* It'll be tin roof/siding 

* Standard stud building, engineered trusses

* In floor heat

* I was thinking of adding a u-drain (20ft or so) wife thinks this could be a waste and doesn't know why we would want it, here is a link, http://www.u-drain.ca/

* A 36" man door

* Insulated - just regular good enough?

* Now, would you do tin on the inside, or better to sheet it in plywood or drywall? what is the benefit of each?

* Electrical isn't included with the builder, so if he sheets in tin then I have to run conduit on the wall surface for everything. Is this a pain? More expensive? 

* Should I do an overhang around the building, which then require soffit and fascia?

* Is a 5" concrete enough? 

* 1 foot square rebar good?

* do you usually put the 1" Styrofoam under the concrete pad? If not, should I be?

I assume the builder guy knows what he likes to do, but I am just wanting to make sure what he wants to do, and what you guys tell me should be done, are the same thing!

Is there anything else I'm forgetting? Would it be stupid to say forget the big shop, and just build it like 15x45 so all that fits is my boat and a bit of storage on the side? Wonder what kind of cost difference it would be?

Thanks everyone!!
 
Just a couple things come to mind - first, way to go, just do it!

- Join www.garagebuilder.com. Many experts there, including friendly Canucks. Great forum.

- In floor heat is awesome. I'm doing it my commercial building right now.

- Use 1" spray foam on the walls and ceiling, then conventional fiberglass. It seals everything tight as a drum and gives great R values.

- Friends here have done foam with osb interior siding painted, but you can also use the white steel corrugated panels on walls and ceiling and it looks great.

- Use 2" hard foam insulation under the slab. It's cheap and gives you R10 so the floor heat works better.

- Another option is www.thebarrier.com. It's what my contractor uses and works great if you can put 6" pea gravel underneath.

- The most important thing with floor heat is edge insulation. Read up and do it right and the other stuff falls in place.

- Build it twice as big as you think you need. Every person who has already built what i'd consider my dream garage said this same thing FIRST!

Good luck!
 
Let me know if you want a deck off the side. Then I'll be of value here. Sounds like a sweet plan though.
 
30x45 with 16' walls--Do you really need 16' side walls?  I would think that building a structure to stand up to your extremely heavy snow loads with 16' side walls will be very, very expensive to build.

20x14 overhead door on the 30' side--You'll find such a door to be very, very expensive.  Does your space allow putting doors at both ends so you can drive in the boat?

In floor heat--Is this really needed?   Won't heating such a structure be a very, very expensive proposition with your extreme temperatures?

Run conduit on the wall surface for everything. Is this a pain? More expensive?  If the structure's wood and not for commercial use, I don't see where conduit is needed.  Depends on governmental codes and regulations.

Should I do an overhang around the building, which then require soffit and fascia?  Absolutely have an overhang.

Is a 5" concrete enough?   Sure, it's fine.

1 foot square rebar good?  Sure, it's fine.
 
Check the building codes in your area .Make sure you have the most recently  updated codes ,they do change occasionally ( at least in my area )  The codes may answer some of your questions.  
 
Wow, sounds like quite a project for something you will not be using much except for storage .... :blink:

I'd be more apt to agree with your statement about the 15x45. Unless you are using it all the time, why spend the extra.

Around here, and I'm sure other areas, theory is it's cheaper to build up, then out. Excavation, extra concrete work, etc... is more expensive than some extra lumber. Lord knows, you guys have lumber ...... :D

I bet we get 75% of our lumber via Canada ......

Anyhoo, "IF" I had the ability I would build as large as possible as your budget allows (the first time), add all the options you can't do later (drain/floor heat).

Around here, 4" concrete with 6x6 mesh is standard, key is the base MUST be compacted stone/gravel or it can still crack from settling. 2" foam under optional, but with in floor heat, it's necessary.

Metal roofing/siding is a good long term life span product. We sell alot of it ..... people are starting to use it more for roofing as shingle prices have gotten ridiculous.

Do you have a good size lot that you are building on? Will you go out back? PUT IN second door at the back. Fairly cheap and beats walking from rear of shop to front, go out man door, then walk right back where you were .... :wacko:

OSB on inside is probably much more economical ... steel here is around .90 cents a sf/ osb is around .38 cents .... or about $38 per 32 s.f. vs.$12  Drywall is ok too, but I'd at least do the lower 4' in osb. About same cost around here.

Run electrical before covering walls .... conduit can get expensive quick.

Unless, you are using for storage, keep truss pitch at 3/12 or 4/12 to keep cost down. Now you might want more for snow to come off but if you do a 6 pitch, a 30' wide will rise approx. 7-1/2' at peak, so with 16' walls, the peak will be 23-1/2 feet high.

This building is going to be HUGE !! :blink:

I could keep going and going as I sell most of this for a living everyday, and I'm off today sooooo ........ :lol:
 
Bamaman said:
30x45 with 16' walls--Do you really need 16' side walls?  I would think that building a structure to stand up to your extremely heavy snow loads with 16' side walls will be very, very expensive to build.

20x14 overhead door on the 30' side--You'll find such a door to be very, very expensive.  Does your space allow putting doors at both ends so you can drive in the boat?

In floor heat--Is this really needed?   Won't heating such a structure be a very, very expensive proposition with your extreme temperatures?

Run conduit on the wall surface for everything. Is this a pain? More expensive?  If the structure's wood and not for commercial use, I don't see where conduit is needed.  Depends on governmental codes and regulations.

Should I do an overhang around the building, which then require soffit and fascia?  Absolutely have an overhang.

Is a 5" concrete enough?   Sure, it's fine.

1 foot square rebar good?  Sure, it's fine.
Click to expand...
Thanks for your response! As for 16' walls, yes they have to be since my boat is 12'6" tall I need a 14' tall door, so must be 16' walls

No I cannot have a drive in and out, I loaded a Google Earth pic and will try to describe where it will go

In floor heat- I don't know if I will ever use it or need it, but it is alot easier to put it in now than later! :D  

For the conduit, I am meaning if it is tinned inside I would need it, if I decide to sheet it with something else then I can run it through the walls and not need conduit. Not sure which is the better route, but I can run most electrical myself and insulate and sheet the walls myself and save a few bucks, or let the builder tin everything and have to deal with conduit later on.

Not disputing the overhang, but what is the benefit of adding one vs not having one? I like the idea of an overhang, but need to convince the wife of the extra expense!  Haha.

Once again, thanks for your input!
 
SEMPERFI8387 said:
Wow, sounds like quite a project for something you will not be using much except for storage .... :blink:

I'd be more apt to agree with your statement about the 15x45. Unless you are using it all the time, why spend the extra.

Around here, and I'm sure other areas, theory is it's cheaper to build up, then out. Excavation, extra concrete work, etc... is more expensive than some extra lumber. Lord knows, you guys have lumber ...... :D

I bet we get 75% of our lumber via Canada ......

Anyhoo, "IF" I had the ability I would build as large as possible as your budget allows (the first time), add all the options you can't do later (drain/floor heat).

Around here, 4" concrete with 6x6 mesh is standard, key is the base MUST be compacted stone/gravel or it can still crack from settling. 2" foam under optional, but with in floor heat, it's necessary.

Metal roofing/siding is a good long term life span product. We sell alot of it ..... people are starting to use it more for roofing as shingle prices have gotten ridiculous.

Do you have a good size lot that you are building on? Will you go out back? PUT IN second door at the back. Fairly cheap and beats walking from rear of shop to front, go out man door, then walk right back where you were .... :wacko:

OSB on inside is probably much more economical ... steel here is around .90 cents a sf/ osb is around .38 cents .... or about $38 per 32 s.f. vs.$12  Drywall is ok too, but I'd at least do the lower 4' in osb. About same cost around here.

Run electrical before covering walls .... conduit can get expensive quick.

Unless, you are using for storage, keep truss pitch at 3/12 or 4/12 to keep cost down. Now you might want more for snow to come off but if you do a 6 pitch, a 30' wide will rise approx. 7-1/2' at peak, so with 16' walls, the peak will be 23-1/2 feet high.

This building is going to be HUGE !! :blink:

I could keep going and going as I sell most of this for a living everyday, and I'm off today sooooo ........ :lol:
Click to expand...
Thanks Dave! I knew you were in the trade, and I KNEW you would have an opinion!! Haha that's what I'm trying to figure out is the most cot effective use of interior material and labor, and if I can pay myself nothing for doing some grunt work instead of someone else, I'm fine with that! I have a few buddies that are electricians, not good enough buddies that they will do it for nothing, but good enough that they will lend a hand if I get stuck on something. PLUS I have Google AND YouTube!  Haha practically makes me a neuro surgeon! 
 


Ok, so I'll do my best to describe what you are seeing, sorry, I don't have a fancy way to draw lines on the picture! So at the lower part of the image you can see the "10" marking that is on the highway (there are a few of them in the picture) well the house is the "I" structure. So you pull in off the highway driving straight towards the house, then stop, and back up parallel with the highway (there is a littIe garage there in the picture, just off the top left corner of the house) unfortunately the big trees are casting a big shadow or it would be easier to see the gravel drive. There is a bunch of trees in the upper left portion of the picture at the end of the gravel drive, I want to clear a section of that out, probably 45'  wide or so and put the shop there, so I can just pull in towards the house, then backup and turn so the boat goes around the big trees and straight into the garage parallel with the highway. Make sense?
 
This is a great site for doing configurations and getting a really quick idea on costs. They're close to us here and several people have used them for metal buildings.

http://www.diypolebarns.com/
 
Image0.jpeg

Ok, here it is, so the green line is me driving in forward,  blue line is me backing it up, and well of course the red line was saved for the best part, the rough location of the building
 
Sorry, Derrick.  I forgot that you had the tower.  You're right about needing that high a ceiling. 

Many people don't realize how large pontoons are, especially when a tow vehicle's in front of them.  My 24SSLX on the trailer with a crewcab 3/4 ton truck is like driving a tractor trailer truck--almost.  And even with the bimini folded all the way down, it's about 8' tall on the trailer with 13" tires.

And since you live so far north, the weather conditions require much more stringent building codes and heavier construction than we have in the South.

In order to take back my garage, I'm getting ready to build a 24' x 24' workshop--stick built with a metal roof.  We have no building codes outside our city, and we don't have to obtain permits of any kind.  My plans are scribbled  on the back of a brown paper sack.

Good luck to you.
 
Sounds like there would be some interesting structures down there....kind of scary with no code.
 
Bamaman said:
Sorry, Derrick.  I forgot that you had the tower.  You're right about needing that high a ceiling. 

Many people don't realize how large pontoons are, especially when a tow vehicle's in front of them.  My 24SSLX on the trailer with a crewcab 3/4 ton truck is like driving a tractor trailer truck--almost.  And even with the bimini folded all the way down, it's about 8' tall on the trailer with 13" tires.

And since you live so far north, the weather conditions require much more stringent building codes and heavier construction than we have in the South.

In order to take back my garage, I'm getting ready to build a 24' x 24' workshop--stick built with a metal roof.  We have no building codes outside our city, and we don't have to obtain permits of any kind.  My plans are scribbled  on the back of a brown paper sack.

Good luck to you.
Click to expand...
Yes they are quite large, especially when you actually put them inside a building.  You really get a sense of it then. So back to your original post, why do you think I SHOULD do an overhang? Just esthetically or functionality? I thought if I had them then at least I could do some pot lights all around it, just wondering if it has any true benefits? 
 
TomS said:
Just a couple things come to mind - first, way to go, just do it!

- Join www.garagebuilder.com. Many experts there, including friendly Canucks. Great forum.

- In floor heat is awesome. I'm doing it my commercial building right now.

- Use 1" spray foam on the walls and ceiling, then conventional fiberglass. It seals everything tight as a drum and gives great R values.

- Friends here have done foam with osb interior siding painted, but you can also use the white steel corrugated panels on walls and ceiling and it looks great.

- Use 2" hard foam insulation under the slab. It's cheap and gives you R10 so the floor heat works better.

- Another option is www.thebarrier.com. It's what my contractor uses and works great if you can put 6" pea gravel underneath.

- The most important thing with floor heat is edge insulation. Read up and do it right and the other stuff falls in place.

- Build it twice as big as you think you need. Every person who has already built what i'd consider my dream garage said this same thing FIRST!

Good luck!
Click to expand...
Hey Tom, I tried to go to the site you mentioned, but it doesn't seem to be operating any more. (garagebuilder one) I like the idea of spray foam, but the problem is there really aren't a lot of people doing it around here at the moment. Ticks me off because years ago I had actually looked into buying a mobile insulation setup, came with a trailer and everything you need to start your own business!  Wish I would have done it now. There are a few doing it, no doubt it is a better way to go, but because of the price difference, less people use it. Kinda like how I'm thinking! Haha as for the edge insulation, are you meaning around the exterior foundation? As for size, I agree for the most part, the wife just made a valid point that this property is my parents, and it is only really used on the weekends and a little more in the summer, if it was behind my house and I was using it everyday, no question, it would have everything I could reasonably afford. But since I don't see my parents letting us buy it anytime soon, not that I could afford to buy it anytime soon, is it worth building it twice as big as I need so it can get filled up with a bunch of junk? Not sure. Plus, God forbid something bad happens to my parents, but if they had to sell the property, then what? I'm out of a garage. Dunno, guess some stuff to talk to my parents about and think about too. That all being said, I think I would also check with the builder and find out what kind of price difference it is between the two sizes. As you all know, I'm a HUGE believer in just doing it right the first time, or third time, but a garage is a little more permanent than a boat, so I want it to last into the future. 
 
Here is a DIY spray foam kit. You can buy them on Amazon.

http://www.sprayfoamkit.com/

Around here they often use a "hybrid" approach of spray foam to seal the openings and provide a modest first layer, then add traditional fiberglass over that to get the full R-value needed. We have this approach in our house with 2x6 framing and it is very tight.
 
TomS said:
oops, my mistake it's http://www.garagejournal.com/

They can answer any question you have, very serious about their toy barns.
Click to expand...
Haha, now this is funny!! I went to the site and started to register, punched in Bulldogscadillac for a username and it said already in use! So I tried what might be a password, BINGO! Said I haven't logged in since 07-03-2012!! Haha forgot all about that site!  Thanks Tom!
 
You could save some height if you sit it on the toons and drag it in. Make sure it's gravel as it will slide easier ..... LOL !!!!!
 
I built a 4 car ,Open span, (Soon to be stacking cars)  (1000 square ft as large as the city would let me put in) I did the galvanized panels on the walls (after insulation) I love it. Cool look, No maintenance, If I need to change or add something later (ele) ,, No problem. Also helps with the lighting for these over 50 eyes. Heated floor in Texas? Nah, But we have hidden 50 cal. portals in the facial boards

Just saying
 
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