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Dealers the forum has dealt with

Explain to me how I can buy at a dealer near me when the dealer near me doesn't have anything I would want to own and won't lift a finger to go get what I do want to buy. Bennington pays the dealer to do warranty work - its not like the local guy eats it because he didn't sell the boat.

The local Harris dealer wants me to quit looking for a Bennington and buy one of his leftovers.
 
Purchased a snowmobile from Nelsons when I lived in Michigan several years ago. Deal went fine and price was right, but never used them for service after the deal. Did all my own work on the machine. I'd buy from them again, if that's your next question.
 
The problem is you don't know how the service will be after the sale. We bought from a dealer over 2.5 hours away and saved some big money. The even came out to attempt repairs remotely. Unfortunately their techs were not very skilled. Our first dealer was good but we never had to test their service ability. He did help us with getting our boat to bennington recently. Thanks again to Jonathan at whites landing.
 
Nelsons Speed Shop of Greenville, Mi. is owned by Lakeside Motorsports of Mecosta, Mi.  Lakeside has been a Bennington and Manitou dealer for a number of years.  Lakeside has a solid reputation for service from what I hear.  A friend of mine bought a new Manitou SHP with a 250 Etec a few years back.  Lakeside put 3 new powerheads on that Etec in 2 years time, so I guess they provide good service LOL!   No worries with either dealership.  My family has been buying from Nelsons since the 80's.
 
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Lakeside is who I bought my current boat from..... I will say they were willing to help after months of no response, service reps quitting/leaving and me finally getting directly in touch with Bennington to get any movement. Based on my experience the techs just didn't have the skills to complete my repairs. I won't repost the photos but very sloppy. Not trying to bash them. Just sharring my experience.
 
I'm going to step outside the box and provide another alternative. I bought my boat 2 hours away, but my mechanic is 30-45 minutes away. Use your dealer for the "warranty" stuff and get in good with a good certified mechanic. Afetr a while, they don't (or shouldn't) care what brand boat you have, they ar just happy to be getting a peice of revenue. So the service department should have less of a factor in buying new.
 
gaurdrail22 I dealt with Jared at buckeye lake marine. They gave me a great deal
 
I might be the crazy one here, i live in Kansas and went to Minnesota to buy our toon. At the time i suppose i never considered warranty or service work.

But i have not had a single issue with my quality Bennington, and i do have a dealer a couple of hours away if a problem did arise.

That dealer,by the way, never returned my emails requesting a quote for the same boat i own, so they took themselves out of the deal.
 
I'd rather pay a lower price and hope for good service if needed, vs paying more and hoping for good service if needed. I bought new so I wouldn't have a boat being repaired all the time so for me the purchase was price driven. At the end of the day, I saved money, and still got my repairs completed and then some, so paying more up front would not have been benefitial to me. Read the warranty statement, if your selling dealer is not working, contact bennington.
 
Everyone who has chosen Bennington, and has a great Bennington dealer near them, needs to be thankful. I think that's the moral of the story of a couple of threads that are puttering through the system at the moment. Not all boat dealers are good dealers. This is true for the Bennington brand as it is for anything else. Some boat stores (not boat dealers) are obviously going to be bad to work with after-the-sale...and that should be obvious to any reasonable person up front without having to check the interwebs for reviews.

Those aside, it is very worth getting recommendations from other owners before settling on a dealer. I always cringe when I read reviews from others that this dealer or that dealer didn't respond to my most aloof attempt to remotely contact them and get them to offer a firm lowest-price that I could then take to the next dealer to get beat down after which I would take it to the 3rd dealer I could find to get it beat down farther. I hate to say it, but there are some customers not worth having. The ones that are most price-sensitive on the front end tend to be the same ones who are the most price-sensitive on the back end. The get mad that Yamaha OEM filters cost $20 when the Fram for their car is only $3 at WalMart. They pitch a fit that it is busy in spring, and that winterization costs $300 if you want it done at the dealer with a guarantee that it was done correctly. At some point, it's a great business decision to decide to walk that business to another dealer and let them enjoy the headaches. There is no such thing as a smart business person that will operate at a loss.

That makes me cringe. What makes me angry is the buyer who drilled the price into the ground, who then expects to be treated by the dealer, the same as the buyer who gave the dealer a fair margin with which to operate his business and feed his family. It's a paradox - I am happy to build a partnership deal with a great dealer and pay more than the next person who drilled the price into the ground for sport. And I get treated very well because I have a great dealership. I almost don't like to share my experiences in public because the "driller" shouldn't be allowed have the same expectations after-the-sale as I do. 

Also paradoxical - the best dealers tend to be the ones that sell their customer-experience and service-after-the-sale. They have the most invested in the people that work there. They tend to have the seasoned veterans who have seen it all, done it all. They have the best equipment and best stock of parts. Those are the dealers that, in my opinion are least likely to post prices on the internet. The value proposition isn't price. It's service and the ability to provide an awesome ownership experience. So, the paradox - the best dealers are the ones most likely to be passed over by the lowest price shoppers. Maybe, just maybe...that's on purpose? Generalities expressed are the opinion of the poster and no reference to any actual person living or dead is intended. Statements assume that all Bennington Dealers are the same, which they are not, and that the costs of doing business in all parts of the Bennington trade area are constant, which they are not. Your mileage may vary. Consult website for full terms and conditions. No admission to anyone under the age of 21. Parental guidance required. Anyone named Bob is ineligible to play because let's face it - you spell your name backwards. Warranties against screen-burn-in will be prorated. Drive carefully. Risk of suffocation if children left unattended. Not intended to be used as a hedge trimmer.
 
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There are two sides to every story and the other side of the dealer/customer utopia you described is one where a person is forced to buy from the local dealer no matter what the price?   If everyone asked a fair price, there wouldn't be any issue.  However, when you have one dealer adding $8000 to the MSRP, then deducting $14000 and offering it up as a good price, vs a dealer willing to make an honest deal and give a decent discount (while still making a lot), I should not be made to feel guilty by going to the dealer giving the better price (this just happened to me - the final price difference between two dealers on the identical order came to just over $10,000).

I can see and respect both sides of the argument to a point but if you are unlucky enough to be stuck close to the gouging dealer, then you should be able to shop around.  Why is it okay to label those who want a good deal price shoppers (as if it were a bad thing) but then nobody is allowed to criticize the dealer who is greedy?  Isn't a dealer overpricing the very same but opposite thing as the shopper looking for a good price?  Those forces usually settle themselves but when you insert territories and shopping rules in an effort to "protect" the bad dealer, you end up hurting the entire brand.

Due to the information age, this will eventually change, hopefully for the better.  Right now it's not the greatest time to be a shopper.

JeffS said:
Everyone who has chosen Bennington, and has a great Bennington dealer near them, needs to be thankful. I think that's the moral of the story of a couple of threads that are puttering through the system at the moment. Not all boat dealers are good dealers. This is true for the Bennington brand as it is for anything else. Some boat stores (not boat dealers) are obviously going to be bad to work with after-the-sale...and that should be obvious to any reasonable person up front without having to check the interwebs for reviews.

Those aside, it is very worth getting recommendations from other owners before settling on a dealer. I always cringe when I read reviews from others that this dealer or that dealer didn't respond to my most aloof attempt to remotely contact them and get them to offer a firm lowest-price that I could then take to the next dealer to get beat down after which I would take it to the 3rd dealer I could find to get it beat down farther. I hate to say it, but there are some customers not worth having. The ones that are most price-sensitive on the front end tend to be the same ones who are the most price-sensitive on the back end. The get mad that Yamaha OEM filters cost $20 when the Fram for their car is only $3 at WalMart. They pitch a fit that it is busy in spring, and that winterization costs $300 if you want it done at the dealer with a guarantee that it was done correctly. At some point, it's a great business decision to decide to walk that business to another dealer and let them enjoy the headaches. There is no such thing as a smart business person that will operate at a loss.

That makes me cringe. What makes me angry is the buyer who drilled the price into the ground, who then expects to be treated by the dealer, the same as the buyer who gave the dealer a fair margin with which to operate his business and feed his family. It's a paradox - I am happy to build a partnership deal with a great dealer and pay more than the next person who drilled the price into the ground for sport. And I get treated very well because I have a great dealership. I almost don't like to share my experiences in public because the "driller" shouldn't be allowed have the same expectations after-the-sale as I do. 

Also paradoxical - the best dealers tend to be the ones that sell their customer-experience and service-after-the-sale. They have the most invested in the people that work there. They tend to have the seasoned veterans who have seen it all, done it all. They have the best equipment and best stock of parts. Those are the dealers that, in my opinion are least likely to post prices on the internet. The value proposition isn't price. It's service and the ability to provide an awesome ownership experience. So, the paradox - the best dealers are the ones most likely to be passed over by the lowest price shoppers. Maybe, just maybe...that's on purpose? Generalities expressed are the opinion of the poster and no reference to any actual person living or dead is intended. Statements assume that all Bennington Dealers are the same, which they are not, and that the costs of doing business in all parts of the Bennington trade area are constant, which they are not. Your mileage may vary. Consult website for full terms and conditions. No admission to anyone under the age of 21. Parental guidance required. Anyone named Bob is ineligible to play because let's face it - you spell your name backwards. Warranties against screen-burn-in will be prorated. Drive carefully. Risk of suffocation if children left unattended. Not intended to be used as a hedge trimmer.
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Nautical said:
There are two sides to every story and the other side of the dealer/customer utopia you described is one where a person is forced to buy from the local dealer no matter what the price?   If everyone asked a fair price, there wouldn't be any issue.  However, when you have one dealer adding $8000 to the MSRP, then deducting $14000 and offering it up as a good price, vs a dealer willing to make an honest deal and give a decent discount (while still making a lot), I should not be made to feel guilty by going to the dealer giving the better price (this just happened to me - the final price difference between two dealers on the identical order came to just over $10,000).

I can see and respect both sides of the argument to a point but if you are unlucky enough to be stuck close to the gouging dealer, then you should be able to shop around.  Why is it okay to label those who want a good deal price shoppers (as if it were a bad thing) but then nobody is allowed to criticize the dealer who is greedy?  Isn't a dealer overpricing the very same but opposite thing as the shopper looking for a good price?  Those forces usually settle themselves but when you insert territories and shopping rules in an effort to "protect" the bad dealer, you end up hurting the entire brand.

Due to the information age, this will eventually change, hopefully for the better.  Right now it's not the greatest time to be a shopper.
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My entire diatribe is prefaced by the statement that those who have chosen Bennington and have a great Bennington dealer near them should be thankful. That's my situation. I'm lucky and I respect that. 

Gouging is a hard term to define fairly with both sides represented, for non-commodity items. It's impossible actually. It's a sense. A feeling at best. And I don't like the word. It's derogatory. And in order to use it, a buyer must assume they know better than the seller how much the seller's business costs to own and operate and what level of margin will cover the nut. But I'm not here to argue for either side. Personally, I am not a price-first-shopper. I understand there are price-first-shoppers out there and respect that manner of buying goods and services as one way to do it. I was simply jumping on a thread to speak to the other way to do it so the finished product was balanced and both sides represented.
 
First, what I described as having happened to me is very easy defined as gouging.  If you run your business so poorly that you have to take and extra $10,000 from a customer to be as well off as another dealer, something is very wrong. 

Second, you can sit back and claim not to be a price shopper and not to care but you clearly benefit each and every day because what you described when you said  I understand there are price-first-shoppers out there and respect that manner of buying goods and services as one way to do it.  is precisely that free market force that drives the entire machine and our beloved capitalism. 

There was nothing wrong with your diatribe.  It was good.  But don't ignore the other side.  Both sides are required or we wouldn't have any of this.  My only beef is running into this fake territory wall when trying to get with a good dealer.  It's essentially price fixing.

JeffS said:
Gouging is a hard term to define fairly with both sides represented, for non-commodity items. It's impossible actually. It's a sense. A feeling at best. And I don't like the word. It's derogatory. And in order to use it, a buyer must assume they know better than the seller how much the seller's business costs to own and operate and what level of margin will cover the nut. But I'm not here to argue for either side. Personally, I am not a price-first-shopper. I understand there are price-first-shoppers out there and respect that manner of buying goods and services as one way to do it. I was simply jumping on a thread to speak to the other way to do it so the finished product was balanced and both sides represented.
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[SIZE=medium]Jeff, I’m not sure if I should take offense to your statement or not to be honest. I guess I’ll start with price. If I call dealer A, give him a list of options and receive a hypothetical price of $50,000, then call dealer B, give him the same list of options on the same make/model/year and he is let’s say, $45,000 is that considered drilling or being a conscious consumer? I did not negotiate price at all with either of the dealers on both of my boat purchases. I tried a local dealer for the first one and was exhausted at their pricing game and walked out. They lost all future sales/service anything from me I was so annoyed.  Their tactic was to shoot for the moon, then haggle with me. No thanks.  That is not how I do business. Give me your best price, if it works me deal done and I’ll buy from you. I don’t agree with taking that quote and presenting it to other dealers as that would not be fair. And if the dealer is dumb enough to sell a boat where they are not making any money they won’t be around long. And if the “driller” states a price and the dealer says yes, whose fault is that? The salesman could say no. I’m not sure about others here but I don’t sit around the camp fire on weekends with the salesman, hold hands and sing kumbaya. It is a business relationship plain and simple. I don’t pay more than my electricity bill in hopes they will restore my power than the house that pays the billed rate. Same goes for cellular service and so on. Chevrolet doesn’t give two craps what I paid for the truck when it comes to warranty or maintenance and it is sad boat dealers are not that way as well. Let’s be honest, when the boat is under warranty and Bennington is paying the bill, why would it matter where someone bought the boat? My first dealer who ended up helping with the second boat said I have no problem helping, I’m still making money. If dealers are only looking to sell boats and not service the brand than they are what you refer to as boat stores, not dealers. Again, think about the Chevy dealership. Who goes to the car store???? To me a dealer that turns away warranty work all together is not wise. I can see not giving that boat priority but not even working on it…..sounds like the kid who stomps off on the playground when things don’t go his way. And I’m pretty sure the techs in the back don’t care, or have access to what you paid for the boat. I’d be very shocked if they did an analysis on purchase price to msrp and correlated that into their quality of repair. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]In regards to identifying a dealer who is going to be obviously bad to work with after the sale, please share how someone would determine this? [/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]I do like your comment on dealers who have quality people. I think this is a must have for any business to be successful especially in a competitive market place such as boat sales. Has anyone asked for resumes for all the dealer employees to assess the risk before purchasing? Looked through financial statement and cash flow reports to determine an acceptable margin? [/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]I’m glad you have a great relationship with your dealer as it sounds like that was your intent when writing the check. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]So from a “price” guy to a “customer experience” guy, I know you are not trying to start a battle, just speaking your mind which I feel is different than mine. No biggie, that’s life and human nature. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Nice job on the disclaimer in small font!! That was hilarious and maybe I’ll start using that on my work e-mails. [/SIZE]
 
Nautical said:
First, what I described as having happened to me is very easy defined as gouging.  If you run your business so poorly that you have to take and extra $10,000 from a customer to be as well off as another dealer, something is very wrong. 
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There are good dealers and not-so-good dealers. Totally understood. How that gets defined is different from person to person. But is understood.

Relative to price-shoppers helping me...I respectfully disagree. There are market forces at work, and price-first shoppers definitely play into price-discovery when manufacturers decide go/no-go on a particular boat design. But the higher-end the product, the less consideration that strata of buyer is given in product development and sales channel selection. This isn't a Bennington issue. It's crosses all products that have tiers of offerings from utility to luxury. Bennington is a luxury pontoon offering. 

Maybe a nice conversation with someone at Bennington about the dealer in question is worthwhile? Or a territory manager? Just a thought.
 
lakeliving said:
[SIZE=medium]Jeff, I’m not sure if I should take offense to your statement or not to be honest.[/SIZE]
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Please, please, please don't be offended. 
 
JeffS said:
Maybe a nice conversation with someone at Bennington about the dealer in question is worthwhile? Or a territory manager? Just a thought.
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I thought about that but I felt like no good would come of it.  I don't want any trouble for getting warranty work down the road.  I am still getting a Bennington but it's NOT coming from them but I do plan on having it serviced there, at least until it's out of warranty. 
 
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I spoke with Leader on a couple of occasions. they are close to where I live. I thought they were very high pressure and on the rude side. Just saying.
 
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