E15 Fuel

[Retired Team Member1]

Hi Everyone, We recently saw a question regarding E85 fuel for marine use. We thought you might find this information from a recent Yamaha Technical Bulletin useful.

"Yamaha engines have been calibrated to run on E10 as well as straight gasoline, but that doesn't eliminate serious fuel system problems with ethanol. Most E10 issues are related to the effects ethanol has on a boat's fuel system. Specifically, ehtanol has hygroscopic (attraction to moisture) properties. This increases the risk of fuel system corrosion. What's more, ethanol cleans existing varnish and debris from the fuel system, which is good until you realize that this debris flushes downstream to the carburetors, VSTs and fuel injectors. So, what about E15? At 15% ethanol, E15 has 50% more of the trouble-causing ethanol than E10. Increasing ethanol that much will only increase clogging issues, particulary in older boats. Also, ethanol does not contain as much energy per unit as gasoline. As the amount of ethanol increases, the amount of energy per unit of fuel will decrease. This may cause some engines to run lean."

"Yamaha has been advising customers since the late 1980s that the maximum allowable amount of ethanol recommended is 10%. Also use the recommended fuel Stabilizer and Conditioner for your engine. Both are designed to combat the negative effects of ethanol-blended fuels."

Wow, that was a bunch of typing, hope you appreciate it! Bottom line, use a stabilizer and find pure gasoline whenever possible! For more information, please go to your engine maker's website.

 

[skeptic]

Thank you very much for posting. That's exactly what the tech at my dealer told me. No more than 10% Ethanol.

I borrowed the following from someone on another forum (hope that's okay).

There is a website: www.pure-gas.org/ There are links at the bottom of the page that lists each state and once you open up your state it lists citys in your state with ethanol free stations. Since boating season is just 8 weeks away or so, thought this would be helpful.

Apparently the list is growing.

 

[hawk00]

I was once told by an engineer freind in raceing that says you should never use food in your engines....

 

[spinzone]

Bringing this back up as EPA has approved use of E15. There is not an outboard manufacturer (offered on these boats) approved to run on this stuff. As well, not one of the big 3 auto manufacturers is willing to warranty repairs caused by use of E15.

"In Lawrence, Kan., a Phillips 66 station with 14 gas pumps and four for diesel that mix in soy biodiesel with the petroleum has begun to offer the newly approved fuel, which has 15 percent ethanol, according to The New York Times.

“Being in the Midwest, offering renewables from ethanol and biodiesel fuel are just a natural fit for us,” station owner Scott Zaremba told the newspaper.

Zaremba and other ethanol advocates acknowledge that it will be difficult to persuade motorists to fill up with E15.

Although the Environmental Protection Agency has approved the fuel for cars with a model year of 2001 and later, most major automakers are warning customers to stay away, saying they are not convinced it is safe for engines.

The marine industry has lobbied against the higher concentration of ethanol because it is not fashioned for boat engines."

Full story

http://www.tradeonlytoday.com/home/520856-kansas-gas-station-is-first-to-offer-e15

 

[cwag911]

Bringing this back up as EPA has approved use of E15. There is not an outboard manufacturer (offered on these boats) approved to run on this stuff. As well, not one of the big 3 auto manufacturers is willing to warranty repairs caused by use of E15.

"In Lawrence, Kan., a Phillips 66 station with 14 gas pumps and four for diesel that mix in soy biodiesel with the petroleum has begun to offer the newly approved fuel, which has 15 percent ethanol, according to The New York Times.

“Being in the Midwest, offering renewables from ethanol and biodiesel fuel are just a natural fit for us,” station owner Scott Zaremba told the newspaper.

Zaremba and other ethanol advocates acknowledge that it will be difficult to persuade motorists to fill up with E15.

Although the Environmental Protection Agency has approved the fuel for cars with a model year of 2001 and later, most major automakers are warning customers to stay away, saying they are not convinced it is safe for engines.

The marine industry has lobbied against the higher concentration of ethanol because it is not fashioned for boat engines."

Full story

http://www.tradeonly...st-to-offer-e15

Yup, screws up our engines and makes the corn farmers happy $$$.

 

[Dan's Benny]

Carl,

Not sure the farmer wins in this scenario. Sure it helps keep the corn price up which also means meat prices have to be higher. The taxes for farm land plus the high cost of farm equipment only means cash in one pocket is taken out of the other hoping to at least break even. And than there is the weather factor.

Ethanol is a bad idea all the way around where the government subsidizes the manufacture of ethanol with our tax money. Essentially we get to pay for it twice for those who use ethanol, first through our taxes and second at the pump.

Dan

 

[cwag911]

I guess what I meant is the farmer knows he's going to sell his corn especially when they get paid for growing it. And yes, someone loses in this senario.

 

[Geoffrey & Brenda]

We're all about to take a big hit as far as corn products are concerned.

The lack of rain in the 'corn belt' has the corn shriveled up on the stalk, most all of it will be turned into silage, or feed.

Expect meat, ethanol, corn chips, anything containing corn to go up in price as the drought continues.

Maybe this will put a squeeze on the ethanol producers, and we won't see as much of it, as the cost will outweigh the 'perceived' benefits of ethanol.

We need rain!

 

[ericscher]

E85 is actually a great fuel that WOULD have allowed great boosts in power per cubic inch of displacement if the whole thing hadn't been handled so poorly.

I have said more than once that any technology is ready for the market when it DOESN'T need support from the government.

I offer E85 as a textbook example of that rule of thumb.

And don't get me started on Flex-Fuel vehicles.

 

[schmeg]

Alcohol has superior benefits from a horsepower building perspective, and is beneficial in racing venues. It works just fine in these applications when the vehicle is setup and jetted properly.

From a consumer perspective, ethanol poses some challenges that make it's use not so avantageous. Yes it does have increased power production capabilities when the engine is setup properly,

but at a 30 percent increase in fuel consumption by volume. It doesn't do well when stored for long periods of time because of its affinity to moisture. Also E-10 will start to break down 30 days after

it leaves the refinery. I have had to deal with fuel systems on snowmobiles and other small engines where anything made of rubber gets hammered by alcohol. Mind you in a racing application,

these issues just aren't seen because eof the constant maintenance these machines undergo. The problem with E-10 is that it defeats its own purpose for existence. Yes, by volume it reduces the amount

of straight gas that is con sued at the pump, but by the time reduced fuel economy is taken into account, savings are nullified. The only thing it's accomplishing is making corn growers rich on government subsidies,

and it has eliminated the use of MTBE in auto fuel as a detonation reducer. So I respectfully disagree with E-85 being a "great" fuel for normal consumption.

 

[ericscher]

Alcohol has superior benefits from a horsepower building perspective... Yes it does have increased power production capabilities when the engine is setup properly, but at a 30 percent increase in fuel consumption by volume.

Alcohol doesn't have the energy density of gasoline, it's true.

However, the point is that alcohol is the perfect fuel for forced induction engines, especially turbocharged engines with more than 1 atmosphere of boost.

Take a 3.5 liter naturally aspirated V6, replace it with a 2.0 liter turbocharged L4 and you can get the same peak power levels with a lower fuel consumption while at cruising speed. Obviously, I'm over simplifying there, but the basic concept is this... you can make more power per unit of displacement, thus needing less displacement to do a pre-defined amount of work. When you aren't asking the engine for maximum power that translates into lower fuel consumption.

Of course, I'd be lying if I didn't say that I'd REALLY like to use it on a 572 with rectangle port heads and an 8-71. B)

 

[schmeg]

It certainly does well in blown applications.

 

[spinzone]

More on this subject.

The National Marine Manufacturers Association is distributing 100,000 E15 warning labels this week to NMMA member boatbuilders across the country to place on their boats in hopes of alerting boaters to the potential dangers of fuel with a high volume of ethanol.

The labels will help teach boaters that E15 should not be used in their boat.

Contrary to numerous studies that have shown ethanol to be hazardous to marine engines, the Environmental Protection Agency recently approved a plan submitted by the ethanol industry that effectively completes the last step in the regulatory process and allows E15 to enter the marketplace, the NMMA said.

There are serious and well-documented human safety, environmental and technological concerns associated with ethanol blends above 10 percent in recreational boat fuel tanks and engines, the NMMA said. That means anything above E10 can pose serious problems, including performance issues such as stalling, corrosion leading to oil or fuel leaks, increased emissions and damaged valves, rubber fuel lines and gaskets, the NMMA said.

Three years ago the ethanol industry filed a waiver with the EPA to expand the amount of ethanol allowed in gasoline from 10 percent to 15 percent. The EPA has approved two partial waivers that allow the fuel to be sold in cars from model years 2001 and newer and taken a series of steps to bring the fuel closer to the marketplace.

The NMMA, along with the oil industry, food groups and other stakeholders, have continued to oppose the introduction of E15. The NMMA said it is important for consumers to stay aware at their local gas pumps, checking for any high-ethanol fuels and using only E10 or lower in their boats.

“We encourage manufacturers to take action to help educate boaters by placing these E15 warning labels on their boats to warn about the dangers posed by E15 and help prevent costly and dangerous long-term engine damage,” NMMA president Thom Dammrich said in a statement.

http://www.tradeonlytoday.com/home/521093-nmma-hands-out-e15-warning-labels-to-boatbuilders