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My new Solas Prop is arriving today

ericscher

ericscher

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I just checked the UPS tacking info and it's out for delivery.

Side note...

Whoever writes an app for tracking Santa Clause is going to make PILES of money.

Anyway, I have the 21 footer with two 23" logs and a Yamaha T-50; and the reliable top speed is right around 18mph @ 6000rpm with a 14x9p Mercury prop. Although, I have a 14x10p on there at the moment because my 14x9 got chewed up near the end of the last season, and my first ride this spring had me running at a little over 19mph at 5800rpm.

Another side note...

If I ever find a way to get ahold of the software for the T-60 I should be able to swing a 14x10p @ 6000rpm and maybe hit 20mph.

Anyhow...

Once I get a chance to get the prop on I will be able to take a test ride and see if the Solas's supposedly greater stiffness and different design gives me any more speed.

Of course, once I get that darn roof taken care of and I can justify breaking loose the cash for an elliptical center log... That's when things will get interesting.
 
If you're wanting more speed, there's no substitute for horsepower. Adding a third toon to a low horsepower 23" tooned boat may be throwing good money after bad.

Sounds as if you need to put your boat on the retail market, and purchase one that better meets your family's needs.
 
I've looked at the specs between the T-50&T-60, same across the board except hp. I figured it had to be the software as well, so let me know when have gotten the program sorted out, then all we need is a flash update........ I can do it on cars, but don't have a scanner for Yamaha :D
 
Bamaman said:
If you're wanting more speed, there's no substitute for horsepower.

What I'm really wanting here is a new 14x9 prop, since my old one was trashed.

I only mentioned it because Solas's aluminum props are supposed to be better (stiffer) thanks to their "squeezed metal" process and this was a good opportunity to find out.

Adding a third toon to a low horsepower 23" tooned boat may be throwing good money after bad.

Who said I planned to power it with the same outboard?

Sounds as if you need to put your boat on the retail market, and purchase one that better meets your family's needs.

When the time comes I had already planned on considering that, but I don't have a family, so the only needs I have to worry about are mine and my only need is for speed. :D
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Hey Eric, get your new prop installed ? Pleased ? Gerry
 
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I got it installed, but I ran into a potential issue that I want to talk to Solas about.

Kind of my fault... I didn't stop to think about a hardware kit.

I get the impression from the Solas site that their props are designed to work with Yamaha hardware, but I have been running a Mercury prop (It came with one on it when I bought it.) I actually have no clear idea who's hardware is on it.
 
Eric, since you used to race you are closely aquainted with the old "bolt-on" syndrome. Never works that way does it. Steve
 
ericscher said:
I got it installed, but I ran into a potential issue that I want to talk to Solas about.

Kind of my fault... I didn't stop to think about a hardware kit.

I get the impression from the Solas site that their props are designed to work with Yamaha hardware, but I have been running a Mercury prop (It came with one on it when I bought it.) I actually have no clear idea who's hardware is on it.
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When we got our boat,it came with a Solas prop on the Honda. On the Honda site, they only list Solas props. When I switched to the Enertia, I had to get a Merc kit made for the Honda and the only thing that was different in the kit was the thrust washer. You might need a kit to fit your motor.
 
cwag911 said:
When we got our boat,it came with a Solas prop on the Honda. On the Honda site, they only list Solas props. When I switched to the Enertia, I had to get a Merc kit made for the Honda and the only thing that was different in the kit was the thrust washer. You might need a kit to fit your motor.
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Hello Carl & Suzi. How do you like the enertia prop ? I just put mine on. Rare to see a Honda owner in these parts. Gerry
 
gerry said:
Hello Carl & Suzi. How do you like the enertia prop ? I just put mine on. Rare to see a Honda owner in these parts. Gerry
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After trying several different props, The Enertia was the one I liked best. Good holeshot and top end along with midrange. The Honda came as a package when we bought it and I have no regrets. The dealer just got it in and it still had the plastic on it and my wife said ok. The rest is history.
 
Enertia seems to be the choice of prop on pontoons with various makes of motors. I've seen Honda, Suzuki, merc and yammie powered toons running them. I run the 15x15 with my 150 pro xs. My cousin runs a 14x19 on his 26 footer brand x boat with a 200 pro xs.
 
I really like the Solas props. The Enertia is a very good prop, but I have no experience with one and I doubt that many Suzuki owners do either. The diameter drops as pitch increases, which doesn't lend itself well to the gear ratio and tall pitch requirements of the big Suzukis. Now if Mercury would make a smart decision and leave some diameter in the darn things, they might just sell a bunch more of em. ;)
 
OK, time for a followup...

Everything is good to go at this point, but I did run into something odd...

Previously, I was able to run in the mid 17's @ 6,000 rpm, hitting 18 under the best of conditions. NOW I am running in the mid 18's, although that was one outing, so we'll have to see.

Here's the odd part. The Mercury props I had been running generally put me at a best speed of 18mph @ 6,000 rpm. I'm higher now BUT I lost 800rpm.

That's right, I top out at 5,200 rpm now.

I spoke to Solas and long story short, their props have a slightly different design and are stiffer do to their casting process, so even with the same paper specs (14x9p) I am trying to push more water. The interesting thing is, I now have 800 more rpm to work with. Well, in theory.

This would probably be a great prop on a 90hp engine, or a 70-75 horse engine with a similar gearing. The high thrust series Yamahas are "High Thrust" because their lowers are running a 2.33 gear, instead of the 1.81. I think it's 1.81... I know it's taller.

On the bright side, I finally managed to find out what the difference is between a T-50 and a T-60, so I can now convert my engine if it turns out to be true.

Basically, it's the same engine and even has the same ECM. There SEEMS to be a different number on paper, where the 3rd character is a "1" on the T50 and a "5" on the T-60, but they are actually interchangeable. The story I get, and I cannot tell you with 100% certainty that this is true, is that it is a software difference.

See, for economy of cost, what Yamaha does with some engines is to simply place an air restriction plate in the intake so they can sell the same engine at two different horsepower levels. This is not unlike the practice of say; Chevrolet using the same engine years ago (The SBC), to give horsepower levels that ran from around 200 to around 400. You just change the amount of air that is allowed to flow into the engine and the carburetor, using a vacuum signal to meter fuel, would adjust how much fuel could get into the engine.

For the gearheads here, the two different ECMs are akin to having a mechanical carb with different primary and secondary jets for a different camshaft.

But here's the thing, or so I've been informed...

The ECM can adjust in either direction. The T50 comes with one fuel map and the T60 with another, but you can make a T60 into a T50 or a T50 into a T60 just by adding or removing the restrictor.

You also have to disconnect the battery for a 5 minutes, 10 to be safe, for the ECM to forget it's old fuel curve so that it can write a new one.

Here are the caveats:

  1. First and foremost, I did NOT get this information from Yamaha with a promise that it's 100% true. I believe it to BE true, but please understand that I will be trying this on MY engine, not yours, and I'm prepared to suffer the consequences if I'm wrong.
  2. This only works on the newer engines that have computer controlled air/fuel maps and an ECM that can "learn". Basically 2006 and newer. Having said that, if we were talking about an old carburated engine with an intake restriction, it would in theory work on that too.
  3. This also only works within an engine family. If there are more than one horsepower version of the physical engine, with the same bore, stroke, compression etc; then it should work. It will NOT make an engine mechanically different than it is, it only opens up the intake so more air can pass through.
  4. Finally, I do NOT know if the same trick applies to brands other than Yamaha. I suspect it does, but I need to be clear... the info I got was specific to the "HT" series Yamahas.

I hope to get to this sometime this weekend. Afterwards, assuming my engine doesn't blow up ;) I'll let y'all know if I got an RPM increase and a coresponding speed bump.
 
The big Solas props typically measure out 1.5-2 pitches higher than they are stamped and I would believe that the smaller props would be the same. It's my theory that Solas measures the blade pitch at a different area of the blade than most manufacturers. Pitch is not constant over the length of the blade. It's less down near the hub and more out at the tips. On some props with a lot of progression, it can be much more. Anyhow, I think that if you go down much in pitch, you will gain rpm's but don't expect much of a speed increase.

BTW Eric, I'd love to have your writing skills. You and OcanDo are always a good read.
 
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Eric, you got my attention with regards to the restrictor. That all makes good sense, and i know that in an automotive application, the pcm is loaded with a fuel program based upon physical engine size and expected performance.

From there, the pcm has an adaptive memory to govern the fuel curve based on inputs from mass airflow, oxygen, knock sensors etc. within a percentage range of up to 25% + or - of the baseline.

So, since we are dealing with a 10hp increase, that should be within the range of the current program.

Now all i need to know is where the restrictor is located!

Keep us informed.
 
Eric, here is what i have found. If you look at a parts diagram for the t50tlr, ref. intake 2, there is a plate between the silencer boot and the throttle body. Looking at the same parts diagram for the t60tlr, there is no plate.

Is it really going to be that easy?

Let me know what you have found!
 
What the ???
 
Geoffrey & Brenda said:
Eric, here is what i have found. If you look at a parts diagram for the t50tlr, ref. intake 2, there is a plate between the silencer boot and the throttle body. Looking at the same parts diagram for the t60tlr, there is no plate.

Is it really going to be that easy?

Let me know what you have found!
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Yeah, that's it... Just a restrictor plate. Looks like a machined aluminum bearing in the picture I have.

I haven't yet had a chance to head down to the boat (which is a 5 minute walk) because APPARENTLY, when I signed my most recent contract I thought I was agreeing to be a nerd but in reality I seem to be a project manager. At least it's fun.
 
Since we keep the boat at the shop, i had time to go out and take the silencer off.

I found a plastic disc, 47mm diameter, with a 21mm hole in the middle, it looks very restrictive.

As easy as it is to remove, i thought when we get the boat out i'll do some testing and see what difference it makes in rpm and speed. But that will be a few weeks out.

Let me know how yours performs!

And, congrats on the new management position?
 
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Geoffrey & Brenda said:
Since we keep the boat at the shop, i had time to go out and take the silencer off.

I found a plastic disc, 47mm diameter, with a 21mm hole in the middle, it looks very restrictive.

As easy as it is to remove, i thought when we get the boat out i'll do some testing and see what difference it makes in rpm and speed. But that will be a few weeks out.

Let me know how yours performs!

And, congrats on the new management position?
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It's not. It's the same position.

It just turned out that I'm the first one who actually knew what he was doing, so now I'm running an upgrade project for 140 stores over 6 time zones.

I was in a meeting last week and they were talking about the post bid strategy for the RFP I wrote, and I joked that some recruiter was going to call me to see if I could run it.

The bosses laughed and said; "Too late. You ARE running it."

I gotta ask for more money next time. ;)
 
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