Simon Motor Sports and my Verado

Scott1

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So, I contacted Simon Motor Sports via email.  I have decided to let them program my ECU for my Merc Verado 250 Pro.  They said they can get up near 325HP with it, on 91 octane.

Has many other people in here done this?

As I am still on a job and don't have my boat yet, how difficult is it to get out the ECU so I can send it off?

Thanks

Scott
 

TomS

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So, I contacted Simon Motor Sports via email.  I have decided to let them program my ECU for my Merc Verado 250 Pro.  They said they can get up near 325HP with it, on 91 octane.

Has many other people in here done this?

As I am still on a job and don't have my boat yet, how difficult is it to get out the ECU so I can send it off?

Thanks

Scott
I would ping Bryan Hermann (@EZ-Fender). He has done the whole thing on his 225 Verado.
 

ssc

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I have not done it. For me it is not worth it. Simon MS said 325 HP from my 300 verado for the upgrade. I find them to be honest people.  Hence, the risk outweighs the utility as it voids the warranty. In speaking with representatives from Mercury racing at some of the boat shows, they claim the 300 Verado with 91 octane puts out approximately 317 HP if I remember correctly. Hence, my reason for seriously considering the 400.

Cheers, Steve
 

TomS

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I have not done it. For me it is not worth it. Simon MS said 325 HP from my 300 verado for the upgrade. I find them to be honest people.  Hence, the risk outweighs the utility as it voids the warranty. In speaking with representatives from Mercury racing at some of the boat shows, they claim the 300 Verado with 91 octane puts out approximately 317 HP if I remember correctly. Hence, my reason for seriously considering the 400.

Cheers, Steve
I'm really looking forward to you giving that 400R a whirl  :)
 

Scott1

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I have not done it. For me it is not worth it. Simon MS said 325 HP from my 300 verado for the upgrade. I find them to be honest people.  Hence, the risk outweighs the utility as it voids the warranty. In speaking with representatives from Mercury racing at some of the boat shows, they claim the 300 Verado with 91 octane puts out approximately 317 HP if I remember correctly. Hence, my reason for seriously considering the 400.

Cheers, Steve
Are you sure you have your numbers correct?  How can they get up to 325HP out of a 250, but only 325HP out of a 300?  Also, nothing will void your warranty if Mercury does not know about it.  There is more than just a HP gain, I have been told it smoothes out the power curve and gives better overall gas mileage since the Merc comes so rich from the factory.  Most of the things I own I end up modifying, never turned down on any warranty for 2 reasons.  1.  Dealers don't lose money on it so they don't care, I have had them cover for me.  2.  If I think it won't b covered, I just undo what was done, or find a way for them not to know.  But, I get your point, you just never know.  Worse case I cover the fix myself.
 
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TomS

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Are you sure you have your numbers correct?  How can they get up to 325HP out of a 250, but only 325HP out of a 300?  Also, nothing will void your warranty if Mercury does not know about it.  There is more than just a HP gain, I have been told it smoothes out the power curve and gives better overall gas mileage since the Merc comes so rich from the factory.  Most of the things I own I end up modifying, never turned down on any warranty for 2 reasons.  1.  Dealers don't lose money on it so they don't care, I have had them cover for me.  2.  If I think it won't b covered, I just undo what was done, or find a way for them not to know.  But, I get your point, you just never know.  Worse case I cover the fix myself.
No more HP because they're all the same engine other than programming. You can only squeeze it so hard before something goes boom. That's why the new 350 has been "enhanced" internally,  beyond the ECU map.
 
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Scott1

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No more HP because they're all the same engine other than programming. You can only squeeze it so hard before something goes boom. That's why the new 350 has been "enhanced" internally,  beyond the ECU map.
Wow, I did not know that, makes sense now.  So if it is just the programming, then all they are doing is programming my 250 like a 300.  This also tells me there should be no more danger to having this done to a 250 than the 300 already has.  Thanks for the info.
 

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Wow, I did not know that, makes sense now.  So if it is just the programming, then all they are doing is programming my 250 like a 300.  This also tells me there should be no more danger to having this done to a 250 than the 300 already has.  Thanks for the info.
That's correct, though as I understand it Simon does a little more aggressive map to get more midrange torque and more efficient cruise, a very good thing on a toon  :)
 

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Tom has it correct, though the benefit of it on my motor is minimal according to my research and in speaking with Simon's. The merc 350 and 400 are not the exact same as the 300 with a different ecm. There are other internal changes that result in the increased HP.

Cheers, Steve
 

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Bryan can be reached at pontoonforums.com, and he goes under the handle "Bryden".  He boats on LOTO--Lake of the Ozarks.

He has a Verado 225, and it's been programmed to run 315 hp--last time I heard.  He's also said the improvements have not been all horsepower, and that the driveability of the engine has improved.

Bryan's also pretty savvy about propellers, as he's tested about every propeller on the market.  He's presently running Premier's high performance hull, but previously was running a Manitou SHP hull with a large engine.
 

Scott1

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Thanks guys, I contacted Bryan like a couple of you suggested.  Already been a great help and he is willing to help me set up the boat if it is not right.  He told me to tell everyone over here "Hi"  said there are some good people here, I agree!

Thanks again
 

Scott1

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Scott, will you have pre and post numbers? Did Bryan state that he had substantial results?
Unfortunately I will not have pre numbers.  I have to pick my boat up and then send the ECU right away as I will be heading back to work, so my numbers will just be post.

Bryan did get substantial results because his was a 225, so essentially he now has a 300, actually better than a 300.  He said my 250 should get at least around 315 HP on 91 octane, around 290 HP on 87 ocatane.  Simon says I can get up to 325 HP on 91 octane.  The way he maps it gives you more than HP, it gives you better bottom end torque along with midrange, better fuel consumption at cruising speeds.  Bryan also said the same thing.  They both also stated that the re-programming will not be picked up by any scans from Mercury, and there are no durability issues.

I now understand better why there are no durability issues, as pointed out above, these supercharged Verado's are all the same engine, with just a different program or "mapping" of the ECU, so the engine is made for these HP numbers.  Everything I have read and the people I have had contact with said it makes for a better running engine.

My boat had the 225 on it, I paid $1500 more to put the 250 on it.  Had I known all this information, I just would have kept the 225 and then had Simon Motor Sports re-program for me, so for and extra $850 I would have gotten a better running 300.
 

jsur

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I am curious if anybody actually knows of a warranty being voided by an ecu modification? I am also considering this, but fearful of the potential ramifications. Is this an urban myth or has it happened?
 

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I can't give any input on the merc side but I did the SMS ECU flash on my F150 Yamaha and while I did not gain much for top end speed as I am just too much boat for the 150 period I did gain about 1 mph top end a@ about 150rpm but the improvements came with a whole lot smoother running engine, no more stalling when shifting gears like stock did especially on a cold engine and the best was this hing does way way way better fuel economy than stock, not that the f150 was bad by any means before but it is way better on fuel now. I think if one kept an engine long term the pay back in fuel savings alone would pay for it within a few years depending on the amount one boats and cruises at mid range speeds.
 
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Scott1

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I am curious if anybody actually knows of a warranty being voided by an ecu modification? I am also considering this, but fearful of the potential ramifications. Is this an urban myth or has it happened?
I have spoken with 2 people that have it and they say Merc does not know if you do.  Not sure about Yamaha.  One guy that use to post on here quite a bit said his engine has been scanned 3 times and it never came up that he had a re-flash.  Yes, I am sure they would void your warranty if they knew, this is how I look at it:

Most warranty issues will be small anyway, easy to fix not costing a whole lot.  Now there is always a chance something dramatic could happen I guess.

If I were not happy with the performance of my engine on the boat, I would rather enjoy the modified performance for all my boating time than wait 5 years or whatever it is for the warranty to run out.

The low end punch is great, throttle down while in midrange and it will put you back in your seat, top end is in the 50's depending on your boat and prop, etc.  Lots of fun :)

Edit:  Also, don't forget that these engines are made for this extra HP, you are not pushing them above and beyond what they are made for.  For those of us that purchased 225 and up but not 300, we are actually de-tuned, that is it.  These engines are the same, just different program in the ECM.
 
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Wild and Free

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The issue arises when you have it in for service and if there is an update release for the software and if the dealer does a re flash they just over wrote your 600 dollar performance flash with stock software again unknowingly so one has to be careful there.
 

Scott1

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The issue arises when you have it in for service and if there is an update release for the software and if the dealer does a re flash they just over wrote your 600 dollar performance flash with stock software again unknowingly so one has to be careful there.
Simon Motorsports says this is not true.  I will have to follow up on it.
 

jsur

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The issue arises when you have it in for service and if there is an update release for the software and if the dealer does a re flash they just over wrote your 600 dollar performance flash with stock software again unknowingly so one has to be careful there.
What if you bought a second ecu to swap with the original
 

Wild and Free

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Simon Motorsports says this is not true.  I will have to follow up on it.
I don't know how it wouldn't, I have had numerous ECM and ECU's from different vehicles done over the years and am involved with several different vehicle forums and this has happened on many occasions where someone unknowingly or forgot to let a dealer know to not do any recall or factory update flashes and then had their custom tunes overwritten.

The only way I see different is if Simon offers free reflash if this happened. Just scanning for trouble codes or info or clearing logged codes ect would not affect it but reflashing definitely would.

What if you bought a second ecu to swap with the original
That is a good way around it to ensure that you wouldn't lose your custom tune while at the dealer if you did not specify not to do any ECM flashes without your approval.
 
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