PutterLaz
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Has any one experienced pitting on their pontoon?
Pontoon Pitting
- Thread starter PutterLaz
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Wild and Free
Well-Known Member
You may have an anode or electrical issue with your boat if you have pits like that, is it still under warranty? The pics are too small to see details real well.
I agree - that's stray current eating your pontoon. Might be from your boat, or from someone else's boat near you. There are sacrificial anodes that should be sacrificing themselves. Something is wrong. They're either gone or used up?
lakeliving
Well-Known Member
Pretty sure corrosion isn't covered by warranty. Where do you boat?
Geoffrey & Brenda
Moderator
From the looks in the pics, it appears to be all below the water line. That means you have stray electrical current reacting with and eating up your toons,
Since the toons are not part of your boats electrical system, or at least they shouldn't be, then i would suspect stray dock power is the culpret.
This is potentially a very dangerous situation, old electrical wiring, improperly installed wiring, no gfci, etc. can allow a/c current to pass through the water.
At low current leakage levels, it will eat up aluminum, high leakage levels can kill people!
Please have an electrician check your dock wiring, and your neighbors as well.
Since the toons are not part of your boats electrical system, or at least they shouldn't be, then i would suspect stray dock power is the culpret.
This is potentially a very dangerous situation, old electrical wiring, improperly installed wiring, no gfci, etc. can allow a/c current to pass through the water.
At low current leakage levels, it will eat up aluminum, high leakage levels can kill people!
Please have an electrician check your dock wiring, and your neighbors as well.
Pittsburgh
Commodore
Hot Docks and electric shock drowning
In 1999, 8 year old Lucas Ritz was electrocuted while swimming in a fresh water marina. The coroner wrote it off as a drowning. Lucas' father didn't believe it and performed his own investigation. Kevin spent years educating himself and subsequent studies by Kevin and Captain (ret'd) David Rifkin USN found more than 200 reported "drowning" fatalities in fresh water marinas were actually electrocutions.
This phenomenon is now known as "electric shock drowning" and is still ignored by most marinas. Essentially what happened was that a DC conductor melted against an AC conductor and fed AC current down the shaft into the water. I implore you to take the time to watch this youtube powerpoint by Kevin Ritz who explains how faulty boat wiring caused his sons death. Captain David Rifkin a consultant to USCG, BoatUS® and ABYC® has much more information on this and other marine electrical issues on his website.
AC current can get into the water through faulty onboard wiring as in the Ritz example, faulty shorepower supply or simply because one of Darwins rejects unplugs his boat and leaves a live cord lying on the dock. All photos in the three columns below were taken on the docks around my own boat. at Port Credit Yacht Club. I've posted only a few of the over 50 photos I took within just a few minutes. Proof that common sense is anything but. common.
In my surveys I write more recommendations on electrical issues than any other area. When I point out an unsafe battery installation or explain why electrical equipment in a gasoline engine compartment must be ignition protected, most people seem to understand, they rarely actually fix it but I've done what I can. For some strange reason otherwise seemingly intelligent people do not grasp the importance of simple things like polarity indicators , G.F.C.I.'s or proper AC ground systems.
For more information on boats electrical AC and DC systems including battery installations and how to inspect them, I recommend you take a look at Marine Survey 101
Please do not take this stuff lightly.
Society of Accredited Marine Surveyors
In 1999, 8 year old Lucas Ritz was electrocuted while swimming in a fresh water marina. The coroner wrote it off as a drowning. Lucas' father didn't believe it and performed his own investigation. Kevin spent years educating himself and subsequent studies by Kevin and Captain (ret'd) David Rifkin USN found more than 200 reported "drowning" fatalities in fresh water marinas were actually electrocutions.
This phenomenon is now known as "electric shock drowning" and is still ignored by most marinas. Essentially what happened was that a DC conductor melted against an AC conductor and fed AC current down the shaft into the water. I implore you to take the time to watch this youtube powerpoint by Kevin Ritz who explains how faulty boat wiring caused his sons death. Captain David Rifkin a consultant to USCG, BoatUS® and ABYC® has much more information on this and other marine electrical issues on his website.
AC current can get into the water through faulty onboard wiring as in the Ritz example, faulty shorepower supply or simply because one of Darwins rejects unplugs his boat and leaves a live cord lying on the dock. All photos in the three columns below were taken on the docks around my own boat. at Port Credit Yacht Club. I've posted only a few of the over 50 photos I took within just a few minutes. Proof that common sense is anything but. common.
In my surveys I write more recommendations on electrical issues than any other area. When I point out an unsafe battery installation or explain why electrical equipment in a gasoline engine compartment must be ignition protected, most people seem to understand, they rarely actually fix it but I've done what I can. For some strange reason otherwise seemingly intelligent people do not grasp the importance of simple things like polarity indicators , G.F.C.I.'s or proper AC ground systems.
For more information on boats electrical AC and DC systems including battery installations and how to inspect them, I recommend you take a look at Marine Survey 101
Please do not take this stuff lightly.
Society of Accredited Marine Surveyors
Last edited by a moderator:
Geoffrey & Brenda
Moderator
Let me add that for those of you who own your dock, and have shore power to it, a GFCI OUTLET is not proper protection.
It only protects what is plugged into it, not the wiring supplying it, a GFCI CIRCUIT BREAKER feeding the dock is the proper protective device.
And as Pittsburg stated, please do not take this lightly!
I have pinned this topic so it will not get buried by other posts, and stay up where all can see it.
It only protects what is plugged into it, not the wiring supplying it, a GFCI CIRCUIT BREAKER feeding the dock is the proper protective device.
And as Pittsburg stated, please do not take this lightly!
I have pinned this topic so it will not get buried by other posts, and stay up where all can see it.
Last edited by a moderator:
lakeliving
Well-Known Member
This is one of the reasons I will never go with a shore powered lift. Too much can go wrong. My neighbors on both sides of me have power to their docks though. So hopefully the do it correctly.
PutterLaz
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PutterLaz
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Can you explain what would cause an "anode" issue?
Your boat should have sacrifial anodes. Made of metal that is less noble than the aluminum pontoons. The less noble (more active) metal will become the anode to the more noble metal as the cathode. The anode corrodes (loses metal) in the galvanic reaction.
If the aluminum is the least noble metal, it will corrode (pit). It is the anode. Introduce metal less noble (like zinc) and the corrosion will happen to the zinc and not the aluminum.
Your boat should have sacrifial blocks of zinc specifically to corrode as the anode, instead of the aluminum. I the presence of stray current the galvanic corrosion reaction is amplified. Your sacrificial anodes may have fallen off or corroded beyond where they are effective. In both cases, have them replaced. It is also possible that you need additional anodes due to your water conditions. You may also need to switch from zinc anodes to an even less noble metal anode...magnesium. Magnesium anodes are expensive and don't last long. But the sure do their job. I have no experience with magnesium anodes...just stuff I have read about. A zinc anode rated at 100 days is equivalent in size and weight to a magnesium anode rated to last 30 days.
The simple answer to your question about an anode problem...your problem may be they have fallen off or are otherwise not properly mounted or working.
If the aluminum is the least noble metal, it will corrode (pit). It is the anode. Introduce metal less noble (like zinc) and the corrosion will happen to the zinc and not the aluminum.
Your boat should have sacrifial blocks of zinc specifically to corrode as the anode, instead of the aluminum. I the presence of stray current the galvanic corrosion reaction is amplified. Your sacrificial anodes may have fallen off or corroded beyond where they are effective. In both cases, have them replaced. It is also possible that you need additional anodes due to your water conditions. You may also need to switch from zinc anodes to an even less noble metal anode...magnesium. Magnesium anodes are expensive and don't last long. But the sure do their job. I have no experience with magnesium anodes...just stuff I have read about. A zinc anode rated at 100 days is equivalent in size and weight to a magnesium anode rated to last 30 days.
The simple answer to your question about an anode problem...your problem may be they have fallen off or are otherwise not properly mounted or working.
Dan S
Well-Known Member
Where are these anodes on the boat?
Swabber
Active Member
That youtube powerpoint, although lengthy, is really an eye opener. If you dock ANYWHERE where power is nearby you should invest the time to watch this!Hot Docks and electric shock drowning
In 1999, 8 year old Lucas Ritz was electrocuted while swimming in a fresh water marina. The coroner wrote it off as a drowning. Lucas' father didn't believe it and performed his own investigation. Kevin spent years educating himself and subsequent studies by Kevin and Captain (ret'd) David Rifkin USN found more than 200 reported "drowning" fatalities in fresh water marinas were actually electrocutions.
This phenomenon is now known as "electric shock drowning" and is still ignored by most marinas. Essentially what happened was that a DC conductor melted against an AC conductor and fed AC current down the shaft into the water. I implore you to take the time to watch this youtube powerpoint by Kevin Ritz who explains how faulty boat wiring caused his sons death. Captain David Rifkin a consultant to USCG, BoatUS® and ABYC® has much more information on this and other marine electrical issues on his website.
AC current can get into the water through faulty onboard wiring as in the Ritz example, faulty shorepower supply or simply because one of Darwins rejects unplugs his boat and leaves a live cord lying on the dock. All photos in the three columns below were taken on the docks around my own boat. at Port Credit Yacht Club. I've posted only a few of the over 50 photos I took within just a few minutes. Proof that common sense is anything but. common.
In my surveys I write more recommendations on electrical issues than any other area. When I point out an unsafe battery installation or explain why electrical equipment in a gasoline engine compartment must be ignition protected, most people seem to understand, they rarely actually fix it but I've done what I can. For some strange reason otherwise seemingly intelligent people do not grasp the importance of simple things like polarity indicators , G.F.C.I.'s or proper AC ground systems.
For more information on boats electrical AC and DC systems including battery installations and how to inspect them, I recommend you take a look at Marine Survey 101
Please do not take this stuff lightly.
Society of Accredited Marine Surveyors
PutterLaz
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I was parked in a cannel off Indian River MI right next to Indian River Marina, boat most of the time on Burt Lake.
PutterLaz
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Pittsburg, thank you for this valuable information. This is my second boat and makes me wonder why the marina does not disclose this info when you purchase a boat? Thanks again.Hot Docks and electric shock drowning
In 1999, 8 year old Lucas Ritz was electrocuted while swimming in a fresh water marina. The coroner wrote it off as a drowning. Lucas' father didn't believe it and performed his own investigation. Kevin spent years educating himself and subsequent studies by Kevin and Captain (ret'd) David Rifkin USN found more than 200 reported "drowning" fatalities in fresh water marinas were actually electrocutions.
This phenomenon is now known as "electric shock drowning" and is still ignored by most marinas. Essentially what happened was that a DC conductor melted against an AC conductor and fed AC current down the shaft into the water. I implore you to take the time to watch this youtube powerpoint by Kevin Ritz who explains how faulty boat wiring caused his sons death. Captain David Rifkin a consultant to USCG, BoatUS® and ABYC® has much more information on this and other marine electrical issues on his website.
AC current can get into the water through faulty onboard wiring as in the Ritz example, faulty shorepower supply or simply because one of Darwins rejects unplugs his boat and leaves a live cord lying on the dock. All photos in the three columns below were taken on the docks around my own boat. at Port Credit Yacht Club. I've posted only a few of the over 50 photos I took within just a few minutes. Proof that common sense is anything but. common.
In my surveys I write more recommendations on electrical issues than any other area. When I point out an unsafe battery installation or explain why electrical equipment in a gasoline engine compartment must be ignition protected, most people seem to understand, they rarely actually fix it but I've done what I can. For some strange reason otherwise seemingly intelligent people do not grasp the importance of simple things like polarity indicators , G.F.C.I.'s or proper AC ground systems.
For more information on boats electrical AC and DC systems including battery installations and how to inspect them, I recommend you take a look at Marine Survey 101
Please do not take this stuff lightly.
Society of Accredited Marine Surveyors
Link
Moderator
Putterlaz, what was the outcome of the source of the current? Did an electrician come out?
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PutterLaz
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Unfortunately we have not been able to determine the source. If I have any more info I will post it. Thanks for response.
Link
Moderator
Not sure if I would put my boat back in there. Show the marina where you are docking your toons and talk to them about the low current. I would think they would want to know that there is a safety issue involved and it is there best interest legally and morally to find the source
I'm just going to jump in on this thread one last time with a bit of a reality check that will be useful for future readers of this thread. The OP is not docked in a marina. But in a marina environment...this is normal.
In my previous boating-life of big cruisers, we spent summers living on a boat 5 days a week. In every marina I've ever been to, stray current is assumed. It's there all the time. Whether its a grounded-fitting below the water line from a nearby boat connected to shore power, or a battery charger connected to a battery connected to a motor that is in the water on the back of a dinghy ...there are a million possible sources of stray current in a marina. Of those million possible sources, is the simple unintentional battery - two dissimilar metals in contact with each other in water. Protecting your under-water-metal-parts is just something you do. Expecting or striving for a marina environment free of stray current is an unreasonable expectation.
Please understand, there's a difference between the ultra-low-voltage stray current that causes pitting on a pontoon, and a hot 120V power cable in the water (the type that would cause electrocution). It's a reasonable expectation to assume the water is free from hot lines that would cause harm. It's only unreasonable to expect that the environment will be free of any and all stray current. Not only is it unreasonable...it's also impossible. The damage shown on the pitted pontoons is, in a marina environment, normal.
Even on an inland lake or on private property, the only way to prevent this is to have sacrifical anodes on each of the pontoons, and/or lift the boat out of the water. If ever you look at a neighbor's lift, and they have a battery charger on their battery, with the battery connected to the starter connected to the motor and the motor in the water - that setup all by itself produces enough stray current to cause galvanic corrosion to nearby pontoons that are not protected by sacrifial anodes. It is what it is. Get good anodes and check them every year.
In my previous boating-life of big cruisers, we spent summers living on a boat 5 days a week. In every marina I've ever been to, stray current is assumed. It's there all the time. Whether its a grounded-fitting below the water line from a nearby boat connected to shore power, or a battery charger connected to a battery connected to a motor that is in the water on the back of a dinghy ...there are a million possible sources of stray current in a marina. Of those million possible sources, is the simple unintentional battery - two dissimilar metals in contact with each other in water. Protecting your under-water-metal-parts is just something you do. Expecting or striving for a marina environment free of stray current is an unreasonable expectation.
Please understand, there's a difference between the ultra-low-voltage stray current that causes pitting on a pontoon, and a hot 120V power cable in the water (the type that would cause electrocution). It's a reasonable expectation to assume the water is free from hot lines that would cause harm. It's only unreasonable to expect that the environment will be free of any and all stray current. Not only is it unreasonable...it's also impossible. The damage shown on the pitted pontoons is, in a marina environment, normal.
Even on an inland lake or on private property, the only way to prevent this is to have sacrifical anodes on each of the pontoons, and/or lift the boat out of the water. If ever you look at a neighbor's lift, and they have a battery charger on their battery, with the battery connected to the starter connected to the motor and the motor in the water - that setup all by itself produces enough stray current to cause galvanic corrosion to nearby pontoons that are not protected by sacrifial anodes. It is what it is. Get good anodes and check them every year.