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More Power or Express Performance Package

Point I was making kinda goes hand in hand with Todds findings. His approach has to to with thrust output. No brainer there. Bigger motor, bigger prop, more thrust. Always works out to the advantage going

to bigger displacement motors. The point I was making is like aircraft, the more drag you induce on a boat, the more power it takes to overcome the drag. If more of your toon is in the water due to weight and

balance issues, the more power it will take to get it out of the water. I bet even though you are on plane with a heavy load, more of the toon is displacing water. When you get to a certain point in drag, the amount of thrust to

overcome the drag is exponential . I'm in the KC-135 tanker. It goes through similar issues for different reasons, but the theory can be applied in a similar fashion. If we enter "holding" with the airplane and assume a "holding speed"

which is slow, the airplane achieves a high AOA. Once we get to a fine line at a given AOA, it takes a lot more thrust just to maintain a given airspeed. If we momentarily "push it up" the airplane will go on the good side of

the lift over drag equation, and to fly the same profile requires much less throttle. In the plane case, it's not about a hull in the water, but it is about drag, similar to a boat. Long story short, your 115 "is what it is". Not much you can do

to make things better other than the right prop. What you can do is place heavier people on the stern lounge, and lighter people up front. Also when the boat is out of the water next time, there is a wax coating that seaplane flyers

use on there floats that will make the floats real slick in the water. They apply it once a season. I'll find out the name of it today when I go to work. My buddy uses it on his runabout and gets 4-5 mph more out of it. You would need

to have clean toons to apply it, and not have it sitting on bunks. I'll check back with the name of the stuff.
 
Thanks to all for your comments. I know you guys spent a lot of time writing this stuff, and I appreciate it very much!

There are lots of good details in your posts, and lots of things I learned, but I come away from reading it all (several times) with three main points:

1) I'm convinced the 150 would "do all that I ask it to". That is good, as I know it would be worth the $ to upgrade. I feel better now about spending the $ on the upgrade (not really knowing what the actual difference would be until I get it).

2) I never really considered re-propping the 115. I see now that it would help the 115 in full load tubing situations. I would sacrifice top speed, but that would be okay. I see props as being similar to changing the differential gear ratio in my old Mustang. And a different prop might get me by until I find the right deal on a 150. I don't have a spare prop at the moment anyway, so that would be another benefit of getting another prop.

3) I always thought the 150 would use substantially more gas simply because it's bigger than a 115. I hadn't considered it would run "easier" in any given situation than the 115. This removes (or at least reduces) one of the "cons" of upgrading to the 150 - My fuel bills may not be as much more as I thought.

Thanks again for all the comments, it's a HUGE help!

If anyone else has additional thoughts, or can "second" any of these comments, I'll be watching for comments.
 
mtudb24 said:
His boat labored and turned 4500 rpm to do 28 to 30 mph and I was turning 4000rpm and running 32 to 35mph burning 4 gallons per hour less on each engine.
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Wow, that's impressive.

Are you endorsing the 2 stroke over the 4 stroke? I may need to consider that too...
 
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Kaydano

The re prop is a viable option. Example. We have a 18 foot Lund center console that serves as a fishing boat and a Duck hunting boat. It has a 70hp outboard with hydraulic jackplate. Summer we run 3 blade prop for speed. Hunting time we run 4 blade because of weight of 100+ decoys, guns, ammo etc. It's faster on plane even loaded with all the gear then the 3 blade but we need that power and sacrifice top end as its not important as the torque we need to keep the motor in its power band

Todd
 
Bigtop said:
I think a lot that depends on the way it is propped. I traded my 2250gcw with twin elipticals no strakes with a 115 Yamaha for a 2275rli with ESP and a 150 Yamaha. There is a huge difference in the power. While the ESP helps after getting on plane, you can really feel the difference at the hole shot. When I traded for the boat with the 150, it had a 4 blade 15.25x15 prop. The boat would run 39 at 5600 rpms with two adults and full fuel (36 gallons). But when we loaded all the family on, it loaded down to 5100 rpm's and 30 mph. I changed props to a 4 blade 15x13 which gave me 37mph at 6200 rpm's with only two on board, a loss of 2 mph. The big difference is when loaded. I can now have all the family on board and run 33 to 34 at 5600 rpms. It also increased the turning ability of the boat tremendously. We can now pull two adults skiing on one ski and still have a full load on the boat. The skiers have no problem getting up. In fact, we had three adults on board and pulled up four skiers, 2 were slalom and 2 were on two skis. Top speed is nice to have, but in my case I need the power for the way we boat 90% of the time. I was willing to give up a few mph for the load carrying, skiing and tubing ability. By the way, no one has been able to stay on the tube if so choose. Huge difference in the ESP and 150.
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Any thoughts on what I might re-prop a 115 to? I have no clue, but I've read a lot about props on this forum (mostly at the time it went in one eye and out the other) and about all I remember is it would take a TON of digging into if I ever decided to change props. I was satisfied with what I had for a prop at the time anyway. Until now that is (now that I know a different prop would help a lot under heavy load).

So, where do I start? I mean, what prop size should I target, not where do I start reading. I'd like to have a target in mind before I start digging into this so I have something to relate to (old prop size vs new target prop size) as I read more about all this.
 
Thanks again for all the posts. I'm on a much better decision track now compared to a couple days ago before reading all these posts. I would not have gotten to this point easily without all the help, so THANK YOU!
 
mtudb24 said:
Kaydano

The re prop is a viable option. Example. We have a 18 foot Lund center console that serves as a fishing boat and a Duck hunting boat. It has a 70hp outboard with hydraulic jackplate. Summer we run 3 blade prop for speed. Hunting time we run 4 blade because of weight of 100+ decoys, guns, ammo etc. It's faster on plane even loaded with all the gear then the 3 blade but we need that power and sacrifice top end as its not important as the torque we need to keep the motor in its power band

Todd
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I am beginning to understand the picture now regarding how important prop size is... I always wondered why there were so many posts on props! I'm starting to get it now. Thanks for the post.

I would like to hear what Spinzone finds when he upgrades his 115 to the 150...

Seems the 115 vs 150 is a price-point / performance point. For example, I don't hear a lot regarding a 250 vs 300. Seems like the "big jump" is between the 115 and 150. I wish I had known I was flirting with all this when I bought the 115.

If anyone else is reading this and considering 115 vs 150, if I could do it over, I would have spent more time test-driving both.
 
I myself will be pondering this same issue next year when I upgrade from my current 22SFi to something bigger. I'm moving away from the fishing seats and going to something more traditional like a 24SLi or even a 2275Gli.

90 percent of what I do is put-put- with my wife and mother. The other 10 percent is hammer down. A grandson that will be skiing some day down the road. I myself considered 115 to be a good setup. Now I wonder. Sounds like

it will be time to suck it up for the 150. Unfortunately,my budget doesn't allow for a "G" with 3 tubes and a 150. An "S" I can do for sure. I would just like to get into an upscale boat at the same time.
 
Schmeg: The S model Benningtons are plenty luxurious boats for most people. A stretch to a G or R series boat can easily break the backs of the purchaser--and the bank. A $2500 difference in 150 hp vs 115 hp is worth the investment for many people, as the additional acceleration from 22-25 mph to the high 30's is pretty dramatic.
 
You are correct about the S series. I've been very happy with the trim level. I just wish they had an option for upgrading the furniture like the helm seat. Oh well, I'm thinking a 24SL with an XL150

setup next year. New Merc 150 sounds nice too.
 
You can get the S, G, or R helm seat with the S... We have the R seat in our 24 SSL.

I really wish they had a bow seat option though.
 
schmeg said:
You are correct about the S series. I've been very happy with the trim level. I just wish they had an option for upgrading the furniture like the helm seat. Oh well, I'm thinking a 24SL with an XL150

setup next year. New Merc 150 sounds nice too.
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If you've never actually ridden on a "G" or above, the "S" will surely satisfy. The S models are nice boats and can rival some competitors "luxury" models. But..... they are not really in the same ballpark as the G's when it comes to comfort and construction. They are lighter for a reason......less materials. The upgraded helm seat is a great option. My brother and I had the opportunity to drive a new 24SLX tritoon(upgraded helm seat) w/Merc 150 earlier this week. We both came away with the same conclusion. It was a very nice boat, but we would pay the extra for a G model. The S model felt "economy" by comparison. For the extra money, you get a lot more boat with a "G".

The new Merc 150 four stroke performed very well. However, it does not have the refined idle and Swiss watch running qualities of the Yamaha or Suzuki 150's. It was relatively quiet and I was quite satisfied with its performance. As an introductory offering, the 24SLX and Merc 150 paired well together as a great package.

My brother and I have the same RL model tritoons. He has a Yamaha F115 and I have a Suzuki DF150. Additional weight has a dramatic affect on the performance of the 115 vs the 150. So much so that my brother is now in the market for a 150.
 
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Kaydano, I looked up your performance specs in the spec section. As I remember, you are already running a 15 pitch prop and still turning 6400 rpm's. Personally, I don't think that can be right. Are you sure your tach is reading correctly? First off, the Yamaha should be hitting the rev limiter at 6200 and I have yet to see another 115 running a 15 pitch prop getting anywhere. Lose to those high of rpm's.

I by no means am a expert on props so I would hate to make any suggestion and then it not work out There are a lot of people on here that seem to know a whole lot more than I. I however would consult a prop dealer as to what prop to try. That's what they are in business for and I have always found it hard to beat a man at his own game.

The problems with trial and error can be costly. I went with the company "Power Tech" as they seem to have a greater selection of props and also have a return policy. I would post a link but I am writIng this on my phone. Their return policy is if you buy a prop from them and it does not work out , you can exchange for another prop within 30 days and I believe it's only like a $35 restocking charge each time. They also have a number you can call and talk to one of their techs. You can give him all your specs, including what brand nd size of prop your currently running and then tell him what you are wanting out of a prop and they will help you decide where to start. From my experience, they are pretty darn good at it. Another thing to keep in mind is props are like golf clubs, a 7 iron in one brand can be a different loft than a 7 iron of another brand. My point is that when it gets to fine tuning, you need to stay with the same brand. I called them when I wanted more load carrying capability when I had the 15 pitch prop. He suggested a total different prop style and a 13 pitch. When I got this prop, it performed really well. However, I thought going to a 14 would work better so they sent me a 14. As usual, I was wrong. The 13 ended being the perfect prop for my needs so they sent me that one back. Now keep in mind, I am not trying to promote Power Tech props, I'm just giving you my experience.

Hope this helps and good luck
 
Thanks for the advice. I will call them and see what they say. Who knows, might save me $5k!

By the way, my motor is a Mercury, and I'd have to check the manual, but I believe 6400 is right at the top of their range. I can get to 6000 pretty quick, but it takes a long time to get to 6400. You are right, my tach could be wrong but I am certain that's what it reads.

Thanks for your post. I am going to go that direction.
 
Kaydano,

You can play with props all day and you may find one that will show a benefit for a loaded boat, but it will never.....and I mean never, be anywhere near the benefits of what a 150 hp motor will give you. My brother is a prime example. We've tested MANY props with little gain. Todd is absolutely correct, there is no replacement for more cubes. Save your money on the prop situation, as it sounds like your are pretty darn close to optimal, at least IMO. What you are experiencing now is a shortage of power and torque. No prop change is going to cure that. You do a lot of tubing and the extra hp will give you exactly what you are looking for and be economical (fuel wise) in the process. Todd and myself have a lot of experience with various types of boats, motors, and props. We've been there, done that so to speak........even if we disagree at times......and we're both okay with that. You will never regret spending the extra money for a 150, even if it may seem like a stretch at the time. Just do it.....you will never regret it.
 
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Kaydano

Rob (aka Ben and suzy) is right. We've been boating a long time. As he stated, we are okay to agree to disagree on certain topics, but you will never regret spending the cash on a 150.

Your question to me about 2 strokes vs 4 strokes. All I will say is its a personal choice. I believe Evinrude is the sole manufacturer that produces only 2 strokes. They had a run of Johnson motors that were 4 strokes, but they were suzuki with Johnson paint schemes. Obviously they are doing something right though?

I like 2 strokes. I like the power and torque curve bands, simplicity, and power to weight ratio. But that's me. There are pros and cons for each. More and more lakes are banning 2 strokes unless they are 3 star epa rated or better. Lake Tahoe is one example.

We in the automotive field say when there is a warranty issue or something that needs to be fixed immediately, there is NOTHING acceptable other then a dead kill to the issue. The 150 is the DEAD KILL.

Sorry to keep blasting you with posts and info, but we all want you to be happy and get the most out of your boating experience.

Todd
 
Ben & Suzy said:
If you've never actually ridden on a "G" or above, the "S" will surely satisfy. The S models are nice boats and can rival some competitors "luxury" models. But..... they are not really in the same ballpark as the G's when it comes to comfort and construction. They are lighter for a reason......less materials. The upgraded helm seat is a great option. My brother and I had the opportunity to drive a new 24SLX tritoon(upgraded helm seat) w/Merc 150 earlier this week. We both came away with the same conclusion. It was a very nice boat, but we would pay the extra for a G model. The S model felt "economy" by comparison. For the extra money, you get a lot more boat with a "G".

The new Merc 150 four stroke performed very well. However, it does not have the refined idle and Swiss watch running qualities of the Yamaha or Suzuki 150's. It was relatively quiet and I was quite satisfied with its performance. As an introductory offering, the 24SLX and Merc 150 paired well together as a great package.

My brother and I have the same RL model tritoons. He has a Yamaha F115 and I have a Suzuki DF150. Additional weight has a dramatic affect on the performance of the 115 vs the 150. So much so that my brother is now in the market for a 150.
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This is the quandary I'm in. I currently have an S and love it. I'll be retiring in 3 years, so this will be it for us. It will be our retirement boat, so I need to get it right. I feel I would be missing out if I didn't opt for a G or and R, get the 150 and be done with it. Choices, choices.
 
schmeg said:
This is the quandary I'm in. I currently have an S and love it. I'll be retiring in 3 years, so this will be it for us. It will be our retirement boat, so I need to get it right. I feel I would be missing out if I didn't opt for a G or and R, get the 150 and be done with it. Choices, choices.
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Well I'll chirp in at this point, I had an 09 2075GLi with a 90hp yamaha and 2x25 toons. We just upgraded to a 2275RCW with a 200hp Yamaha SHO and ESP. It is night and day difference. When we were on our way to pick up our new boat I was thinking, wow, I can't believe we are spending this much money on a boat. Keep in mind that I had never seen an RCW, driven an ESP boat, or had that many horse's pushing me along. So it seemed kinda crazy, this boat literally cost me more than we paid for our house. The fact that we paid such a good price for our house and what it is worth now is what gave us the opportunity to do the deal, all that being said, once I sat on those seats, heard the engine roar at 41.6 mph, and threw the boat into an amazing banked turn (at a slower speed of course), I haven't even thought of price once. Well that's a bit of a lie, since people admiring it always ask, "wow, what's something like that cost?" to which my reply is "a lot, but it puts a smile on my face every time!"

I thought my 'G' model was a great boat, and it was, not a thing wrong with it, but my 'R', well, that's straight elegance. I could only imagine how you 'Q' people feel! Money comes and goes, memories last forever.

Derrick
 
schmeg said:
This is the quandary I'm in. I currently have an S and love it. I'll be retiring in 3 years, so this will be it for us. It will be our retirement boat, so I need to get it right. I feel I would be missing out if I didn't opt for a G or and R, get the 150 and be done with it. Choices, choices.
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I'll be retiring in 5 years, so I'm right there with ya. We had been contemplating a "G" model but by the time we add all the upgrades, we're only about $1500 less than a "R", so that's what we'll be ordering.
 
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Ben & Suzy said:
Kaydano,

You can play with props all day and you may find one that will show a benefit for a loaded boat, but it will never.....and I mean never, be anywhere near the benefits of what a 150 hp motor will give you. My brother is a prime example. We've tested MANY props with little gain. Todd is absolutely correct, there is no replacement for more cubes. Save your money on the prop situation, as it sounds like your are pretty darn close to optimal, at least IMO. What you are experiencing now is a shortage of power and torque. No prop change is going to cure that. You do a lot of tubing and the extra hp will give you exactly what you are looking for and be economical (fuel wise) in the process. Todd and myself have a lot of experience with various types of boats, motors, and props. We've been there, done that so to speak........even if we disagree at times......and we're both okay with that. You will never regret spending the extra money for a 150, even if it may seem like a stretch at the time. Just do it.....you will never regret it.
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Thanks Rob (and Todd) for your advice. I recognize the 150 may be the only viable solution, and I also don't want to throw good money after bad on props, so I will keep that in mind. I still plan to make some calls. I will learn a lot if nothing else.
 
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