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An Appeal for more performance Information

AndrewG

AndrewG

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As I have trolled through all the topics on these forums over the last 9 months or so as I was coming to my decision to buy my Bennington Q25 QCB, some of the recurring questions I had myself, and I saw others posing as well were questions regarding performance.  These questions usually were about engine size, prop choice, and hull configuration, or some combination thereof.  Thread after thread on the same basic questions.

Now, there are other pontoon and boating forums out there that are not manufacturer specific. So I understand on those sites, that there isn't necessarily a manufacturer presence on the sites, and it's a bunch of enthusiasts saying what they believe.  However, this site is a manufacturer site, provided by Bennington, and (I suppose) monitored by people from Bennington.  Every question is about Bennington boats.

So, my question is this.  Why doesn't Bennington provide more definitive information about some of these performance questions right here on their site?  Yamaha and other engine manufacturers have performance bulletins on various boats, but those are spread across all different boat builders.  Why can't Bennington do the same for their boats?

What I would like to see (or would have liked to have seen before I bought my boat) is Bennington numbers on a variety of different configurations to help future buyers make their decisions.  I realize there are endless combinations of floor plans and engines and hull configurations, but a limited selection would still be very informative.  There would obviously be disclaimers and such, but how great would it be to have good, verified data on how an S model with 2 pontoons, or 2 elliptical pontoons, or the SPS package, or the ESP package all perform with 115HP engines, 150HP engines, and 250HP engines?  Perhaps the same tests with a G or R model.  Top speed, time to X MPH, speed under moderate and heavy load, and whatever else people think would be appropriate.

Bennington has all the boats, and the access to the water and engines.  I think their current customers (who might be thinking of upgrading) and potential customers would love that data.

Would it be a lot of work?  Yeah, it would.  But Bennington provides the best warranty in the industry (that I am aware of), they are a Grade A company in all respects; why not provide this crucial information and end or at least limit the speculation of customers that are willing to spend $40,000 to $100,000 on one of their boats?

Anyway, I would love to hear from Bennington on this, and it would be great if this were something they were already looking at, or would consider looking at.

Thanks,
 
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They do have some data as I remember at one of the former club events the rep had a spreadsheet he would reference when we were talking specs. I think they are hesitant to list all the specs as some dingbat will think his fully loaded boat should perform at the unloaded test figure posted speed. I think there needs to be a movement towards water testing the boat before you buy it. Typically you test drive a vehicle before you buy it, a boat should be no different. That way the buyer knows exactly what they are getting and can make a determination for what will work best. Ask me how I know....
 
I agree that water testing for all boats pre-purchase would be ideal.  Some dealers are located in a marina, and it is easy.  Others are not, and it is a lot more challenging and time consuming.  The other thing that makes it difficult are the variety of configurations any one dealer would have to stock to really make it meaningful.  Say you've settled on a floor plan for your boat, let's say a 2350 GSR.  Are you ordering it custom from the factory or off the showroom floor?  Is there even an engine installed on that boat yet? Is the dealer in the position to test drive it with a 115, and then change it out for a 150, and then again for a 200 or 250?  I don't know.  I've never been a boat dealer so I don't know how realistic that would be, but it seems as if it would be a major pain.

I also agree that you could have someone think that it is a guarantee or something if Bennington were to post numbers or sheets.  However, like I mentioned, disclaimers and such would accompany each posting or entry.  Just like car dealerships post MPG with an asterisk that says, "your mileage may vary".
 
 
While I do think performance tests by manufacturers are certainly helpful, I'd personally rather read individual results because I think they are more realistic.  Running a boat at top speed with 1/4 tank of fuel, one person on board and ideal water conditions really isn't real world.  Owners who routinely run their boats under changing water conditions with varying loads (people, fuel and items) is what I'd be more interested in.  Performance tests are great but I think real world testing is greater.  Just my opinion, take it for what it's worth.
 
Bennington did post a bunch (well, not a bunch, but a number of) test reports several years ago.  Are those gone from the website?  I've not looked for a long time.

Regardless, you still had to do a lot to connect the dots and interpolate to the boat/hull/motor combo you were interested in (unless you go lucky and they happened to post your exact combo).  I recall they had speed vs rpm chart, motor, prop, weight and fuel info.  It didn't have much real-world info that would have prevented me for making the mistake of buying a 115 and later having to upgrade to a 150 because it didn't perform well for tubing.

Andy's video of his new SPS hull is probably the best real-world info I've seen posted here.  Video is the best way to convey real-world info in my mind...  For example, I would love to see video of someone steering with just hydraulic steering while pulling a tube!
 
I have video of some tubing last summer. The camera was on the tube but my wife was driving when me and a buddy were on the tube. She was able to handle it with just hydraulic
 
Link - Those are exactly what I was referring to.  I thought they were posted on the Bennington website, but I may be mistaken.  Those are what I was remembering though. 

Andy - I recall your comment now that you mention it again.  Thanks for the reminder.  Are you saying your wife is wimpy???
 
Not wimpy, she did not have a problem with the 200 horses and regular hydraulic steering this past summer.
 
lakeliving said:
Not wimpy, she did not have a problem with the 200 horses and regular hydraulic steering this past summer.
Click to expand...
But wait till you get the power assist....................It's like hopping in a Caddy.
 
Once I get it I'll provide a write up as then I will have had experience with all three types. Cable, hydraulic, and power assist. I might need to just hitch up the boat and head south for some off season testing!
 
My power steering works great, no problems at high or low speed. Did I mention I don't let her turn too much so I don't spill my beer! :lol:  
 
Admiral -

Spot On!  As usual on this site, someone posts a concise, factual question/request and within two replies, people are completely off the wall with responses. Fact One - Bennington has factory tech reps who earn their paychecks by testing boats. Fact Two - Without regard to whiners, pulling to the beach and swapping a prop is at LEAST a 5 minute job. Wow, lots o ' extra work there!  Fact Three - Bennington has a wall of props (s/s, alum/3-4 blade & adapters supplied by ALL engine manufacturers to sway Bennington to photo feature their engines in the newest Bennington brochure) so its not like profit money is involved (unlike us consumers). Fact Four - Admiral wasn't questioning a list of variables (i.e., full tank vs 1/4, ten biggest loser contestants passengers vs solo, Q Series 26' elip equipped vs bare-bones S Series 16'. Prop manufacturers compare their product on different rigs so why can't Bennie HQ Folks? Let's be honest..., while not every pontoon configuration/load/motor set up is possible, a standard non-wavering baseline could EASILY be established and applied to ALL models tested with "consumer majority" engine options. Examples; All testing on every model to be conducted with 1/4 tank of fuel, solo operator and 300# gear. PERIOD. Nothing changes on any boat on any prop test. The big picture (if you watch your lake) demonstrates a lot of 18'-20' S owners like to power with Mercury Big Foot 60's or Yamaha equivalent. The 20'-24' G & R folks tend to lean towards the 150 Yamaha/E Tec/Mercury while the Q Series and express/triple tube folks of other classes migrate to the big engine players in the 200 -300 hp range. Just an AVERAGE baseline of what the Techs had spinning while driving a particular boat would IMMENSELY help others when it came to actually propping the boat. When you're dropping $45K + for a recreational hobby and most family dealerships are (understandably) hesitant to "loan a $475 s/s prop for "testing purposes", the factory owes us all a bit more info. Check the other 'toons in class with our Bennies and you'll see the factories are a bit more forthcoming. What the hell, if Bennington can't get the Techs to gather this information for the consumer, I am GLADLY volunteering my services in Elkhart, Indiana to record various prop performance for the 2016 summer!  HQ folks, I await for you to contact me.    
 
Bennington is in the business of building boats, and the logistics of ordering in components (just in time) for 4 models of boats with dozens and dozens of seating and fencing configurations must be a nightmare.

Just keeping the Bennington website and sales literature up to date must be extremely difficult. 

Then you've got next year's models to design, test, blueprint and working with the components manufacturers to supply new parts.  They've also got to deal with the prices of those components--negotiating for the best prices.  Can you imagine how much sheet  aluminum they purchase yearly?

And remember that Bennington just purchased another pontoon company--buying some of the competition.  They've got to install their manufacturing methods and corporate personality over there.

In other words, Bennington doesn't have time to jack around with putting out performance bulletins and doing testing for the public.  Their bucket is already overflowing.
 
I agree with Bamaman.  It is not really up to Bennington to test all props and configurations.  They may have a suggestion for the proper size, but the rest should be up to the dealer and the consumer.

I switch things in and out of my snowmobiles, trucks, bikes, etc and don't expect the OEM to know what it will do to performance.  Example:  Polaris (Snowmobiles) puts weights and springs in the clutch to give an all around decent performance, after that it is not their responsibility.  They leave any other configurations to the dealer and consumer.
 
Damn off topic posters ruining this site....

There is plenty of information on this site from real world users of the brand who have experience with all the major motor manufacturers/prop configurations. I have to believe Bennington anticipated the sharing of information from owners on here and this was an intended consequence of having THEIR own forum. And frankly I would rather hear from actual owners when researching what performance can be expected vs. relying on some lame ass salesman that will sell you whatever to make a buck. Granted, there are some real educated and experienced salesman/women out there, but some do not know up from down.

Also, if they did post "actual" speed numbers you'd get some dip wad who has a 25ft toon, loaded with 14 people, full gear and complains about his observed performance compared to the "testing" conditions/performance.
 
The original post was written to Bennington.  Therefore, everyone that posted here is off topic. 

Speaking of off topic, I have no problem with "off topic" posts.  That's where the best stuff often comes from on this forum.  I find it a little ironic that it's usually the moochers (vs contributors) that bitch about being off topic.

If anyone wants to complain about being off topic, might I suggest starting a new topic about being off topic?
 
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Here is a terrific example of how to actually do this right without creating unrealistic expectations and sad stories. Just take a look at the Formula Boats site. It is quite refreshing actually. I've talked to their rep at length about it and they have no reservations about doing this, and nothing but positives from buyers and dealers.

For example, the Formula 240SS, from their brochure:

Available Engines                           H.P. Liter Top Speed    Prop Code

Merc 5.0 MPI ECT Bravo III            260 5.0     40-43 MPH  B III 22.5 ∞

Merc 350 MAG ECT Bravo III         300 5.7     43-46 MPH  B III 24 ∞

Merc 377 MAG ECT Bravo III         320 6.2     46-49 MPH  B III 24 ∞

Merc 8.2 MAG ECT Bravo III X       380 8.2     53-56 MPH  B III 28 ∞

Merc 8.2 MAG HO ECT Bravo III X 430 8.2     56-59 MPH  B III 28 ∞

Volvo V8-270C Duoprop                 270 5.0    40-43 MPH   DP FH3 ∞

Volvo V8-300C Duoprop                 300 5.7    41-44 MPH   DP FH4 ∞

Volvo V8-320C Duoprop                 320 5.7    46-49 MPH   DP FH4 ∞

Volvo V8-380C Duoprop                 380 6.0    48-51 MPH   DP FH5 ∞

 

So when that dealer says, "just get the biggest motor, she'll do 60+ for sure", you can point this out ;-)

 

They also quote range and have this info available for every engine offered:

 

Merc 377 MAG EC Bravo III

 

RPM MPH GAL/HR RANGE

1500   7      3              130

2000   9      5                92

2500 16      7              118

3000 25      9              152

3500 32    11              159

4000 37    15              137

4500 43    18              131

5000 49    23              114

5050 49    23              112
 
So my 4 cylinder "pontoon" will run with a v8 powered formula! Awesome!

I think the big difference between Bennington and the Formula data above is the 240ss does not have multiple hull configurations. It would take some time to do this with the Bennington line. There are two toons, express packages, sps, esp, elliptical then the different combinations of motors ranging from the Semp special up to the big I/o's I agree the information would be awesome if available but I wouldn't get the lynch mob ready to storm Elkhart because it is not.
 
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