New CARB Proposals Threaten Future of Outboard Engines

Michiman

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,764
Reaction score
2,592
Location
Okemos, MI
So, what exactly does an outboard engine look like equipped with a catalytic converter? And how much more will it cost? If you're an outboard engine engineer, your job either just got more interesting or perhaps it's time to dust off the old resume. While lacking much detail, it's certainly worth the quick read.

 

Alicedream

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,009
Reaction score
1,198
Location
Warsaw, MO
I won't even say it other than the destruction of the boating industry is all a part of the plan.
 

Vikingstaff

Moderator
Messages
4,049
Reaction score
5,938
Location
Michigan
I’ll try to stay non-political on this. I am very supportive of most “green” initiatives environmentally, so I like this. Go figure, a Spartan fan liking something “green”. :p

I think cleaning up emissions from outboard motors (and various 2-stroke motors in personal sport craft) is long over due. As the article eludes to, it is easily technically feasible, particularly with 4 strokes. However, as the article also makes clear, it’s going to drive up costs to have a closed loop fuel control systems and catalytic converters on the outboards.

I appreciate many others may disagree, and that is fine too. Not trying to argue, change your mind or anything else. I totally get where others are coming from on a topic like this. Just tossing out my 2 cents and that this is likely a topic with different opinions.

Now, since I have always loved motors, performance, etc... I don’t say these things lightly. I love HP! I love performance! I just increasingly also have environmental concerns and wonder about how much I contribute to those problems because of my interests. :(

In trying to “walk the walk” I even sold my fairly bad-a$$ 6.2 liter V8 Escalade this past August and switched to a 4 cylinder turbo X3 - gasp! :eek:

I haven’t driven a 4 cylinder since college. However, in part due to its smaller size, and the turbo, it certainly has a lot more ”spunk” than I thought it would. :cool:
 

Alicedream

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,009
Reaction score
1,198
Location
Warsaw, MO
Staying non-political. None of them care about the environment. They rather you not spend your money on boating so that activity must be destroyed. It is never about what they are saying.
 

CapKaz

Well-Known Member
Messages
221
Reaction score
289
Location
Cedar Hill, MO / Mark Twain Lake Perry, MO
Chances are new technology will come along in the next six years that will allow outboards to survive and probably become more efficient as well. I will have to say I have appreciated having my Yamaha four stroke. My previous watercraft had a Mercury two stroke and as much as my appreciation of a good two stroke smoke and oil aroma combo is missed ( just a very little bit ) the super quiet and no aroma of a just started Yamaha still puts a big smile on my face.
Many years ago an attempt to outlaw the sell of off road mini bikes, four wheelers and other devices used by our youth gained steam and then was crushed by the off road enthusiasts that stood up and said NO. I believe that the boating world is way bigger and will be able to thwart any attempt to outlaw the beloved outboard. My 2 cents.
 

SEMPERFI8387

Moderator
Messages
12,591
Reaction score
6,630
Location
York, Pa
Truthfully, I’ve seen the size of “factory” behemoth converters, and ”aftermarket” mini converters that still pass emissions. I’m thinking this won’t be that big of a deal, now wiping out the 25hp and under ... now they pi**ed me off ... LOL!!!
Seriously we‘re seeing big advancements in battery technology and other than needing charging stations on the dock (?) or a removable/portable power pod that will be the replacement in the lower HP category.
As for big motors, well thats you guys problem ... :D
 

Michiman

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,764
Reaction score
2,592
Location
Okemos, MI
Gee, I'm not sure this is a political subject. Who isn't for cleaner air? However, I think there's a big difference between a car and a boat in terms of usage and overall effects on pollution. I also take exception to having the state of California dictate what the rest of the country is required to do as I have no vote in the matter. If the Federal government says we need to do it, then so be it. However, expect the cost of an outboard to increase by as much as $4K or possibly more. That's what happened when CA ruled that inboard boat engines needed them in 2007.

Personally, I think I'd love the idea of a super quiet motor on the back of my boat and perhaps I'll live long enough to see that. However, the technology isn't quite there to make that a reality (high power and range) even though I believe an electric boat motor is on the market or close to it. I'm also concerned about having all that electricity around water as well as the cost to install charging stations at each boat slip for use perhaps three months out of the year (at least here in MI). That will be a significant expense which may make boating impossible for many families.

Like it or not, I think a lot of us will be driving an EV in the next ten years. Heck, we have one on order because they are so fast and fun to drive! However, many of us will continue to need a gas powered vehicle for long range driving until we figure out better, more efficient batteries (which Tesla may have done with their "million mile" battery).
 

lakeliving

Well-Known Member
Messages
8,706
Reaction score
7,413
Location
Michigander living In Palm City FL
I enjoy when I come across the aroma of a 2 stroke on the water. If people having fun was a candle scent, that would be it.

Steve, you pul the trigger on a model s p100d after borrowing consumers?
 

SEMPERFI8387

Moderator
Messages
12,591
Reaction score
6,630
Location
York, Pa
I don’t know Andy some of those old 2 strokes make my eyes water ... :oops:
 

SEMPERFI8387

Moderator
Messages
12,591
Reaction score
6,630
Location
York, Pa
Pretty amazing when you look at the fastest American production cars in this article. Top 2 are Teslas. Beating out Mustangs, Mopars, Ford GT. Pretty impressive for electric.
Even more impressive is they’re still players in the exotic car arena numbers at a normal working persons budget.

 

PartyBarge

Well-Known Member
Messages
274
Reaction score
247
All good points above. Worth mentioning that increasing emission standards are what killed a large portion of the I/O market and severely damaged what was left. Yes, several things pushed that change to outboards, like high-tech, clean and quiet outboards, but even dramatic progress like that is never enough. Give an inch, loose a mile... Gasohol (aka gas-o-crap) is one of the major factors driving closed or vapor controlled fuel systems too.

However, in all fairness, I/O's have been saddled with converters for years, maybe it is time for outboards to measure up? And it is impossible to maintain octane ratings if the lighter fuel constituents (read alcohol) are allowed to evaporate away.
 

Michiman

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,764
Reaction score
2,592
Location
Okemos, MI
Steve, you pull the trigger on a model s p100d after borrowing consumers?
Yeah, that test drive you suggested started the ball rolling. Actually, my wife was so impressed (as a passenger, of course) with how fun the Tesla was, SHE ordered a Mustang Mach-E which should show up sometime this summer if all goes as planned. I'm hoping that she'll let me drive it every now and then...
 

Michiman

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,764
Reaction score
2,592
Location
Okemos, MI
Pretty amazing when you look at the fastest American production cars in this article. Top 2 are Teslas. Beating out Mustangs, Mopars, Ford GT. Pretty impressive for electric.
I was able to drive a Tesla Model S for a week and I can tell you that at 70 mph you could mash the accelerator and push people back in their seat. Scary fast and lot's of fun!
 

Vikingstaff

Moderator
Messages
4,049
Reaction score
5,938
Location
Michigan
Fun convo. I agree with a lot of what you said up above Steve. I am pretty optimistic on tech coming through in this area in the upcoming years, and I think it should. That said, like you said, I am not on board with it being dictated by any state, even when I like some of what that state might be doing sometimes. I really think those type of things need to happen at a national level too.

My wife has driven hybrids since ‘09 and they work great for fuel efficiency, but have still provided good driving range. This has nicely helped balance out my former gas guzzling SUVs. It has made me very interested in all electric, but her commute prior to Covid was simply WAY too far to go there - 3 hours round trip x3 days per week.

Now that her job has likely shifted permanently to home, I could see her next car being a 100% electric, as mine would still provide range. However, it’ll be awhile before we need to upgrade/replace her car - likely not for 5 years.

Regardless of what they do with boat motors, not like I’m getting a new one. I don’t know if ours will ever be replaced. Good chance it was really our last boat first. I’m more likely to get other things down the road if finances allow: jet ski and snowmobile tops on the list, and the ever wishful convertible roadster bucket list item. ;)
 

CLDave

Well-Known Member
Messages
324
Reaction score
678
I'd be all for electric if it didn't mean that huge/high voltage plugs would be necessary - right off the dock. I get nervous about 110v lift motors. Imagine 2x-3x or more juice flowing into the water? Yikes.
 

Vikingstaff

Moderator
Messages
4,049
Reaction score
5,938
Location
Michigan
Top